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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 743193 11-Jan-2013 10:42 Send private message

blur:
BlakJak: You're asking this in the Telecom forum. :P

If you don't have Fibre to your premesis the easiest options will be HSNS Lite based, but you're limited to several mbit/sec symmetric. Several ISPs can offer you HSNS Lite on Telecom/Chorus Copper, including Telecom themselves.

HSNS is at least, business grade connectivity.


Good point!

I'm going to get a feasibility study done as to whether we can connect to fibre. My understanding is that we have Chorus fibre running past the gate so I’d be interested to see what the cost will be to get ourselves connected.

 

If we are able to connect, what are our options then?


The Fibre service is usually with a small list of Fibre Players depending on where in NZ you are.
Telecom/Chorus
TelstraClear
FX Networks
Vector
Citylink

Are all players.

Usually you select a Layer 3 Service provider who act as a wholesaler for the Layer 2 Fibre service.  All except Vector will do both layers, I think?  Essentially pick your ISP of choice and ask them what fibre connectivity options they can present, and go from there (rinse and repeat, if necessary).

If you have Chorus fibre past your gate you will need to either pay for the link to your premesis, or come to a deal via your ISP (some will pay the up-front connectivity cost in return for a 2 or 3 year contract, for example.)




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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 743196 11-Jan-2013 10:47 Send private message

Zeon:

This issue isn't related to the ISP but rather is a symptom of the way the internet is designed and works. The only advantage of paying your ISP $1000 a month instead of $100 is they may sort out routing issues with other parties on your behalf but that is not guaranteed  Where there are carriers in between you lose control and as can be seen, Telecom cannot influence the routes without Singtel/Microsoft support.

If you want greater reliability choose a New Zealand based provider where there is control.....


There are really two issues here:

1. We are an SME who now have a greater reliance on Internet connectivity due to applications moving to the cloud. Previously a “home” broadband connection was sufficient; however we are now looking at a more business orientated solution with SLA’s with the provider. This discussion should probably be moved into a new thread.

2. There is a speed issue (due to routing) between NZ and Office 365 servers located in Microsoft’s server farm with the provider in Singapore. Your post above confirms my belief that NZ customers should be demanding better service from Microsoft so they can put pressure on their provider, SingTel to work with Telecom to resolve the issue.




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335 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 743200 11-Jan-2013 10:52 Send private message

BlakJak:

The Fibre service is usually with a small list of Fibre Players depending on where in NZ you are.
Telecom/Chorus
TelstraClear
FX Networks
Vector
Citylink

Are all players.

Usually you select a Layer 3 Service provider who act as a wholesaler for the Layer 2 Fibre service.  All except Vector will do both layers, I think?  Essentially pick your ISP of choice and ask them what fibre connectivity options they can present, and go from there (rinse and repeat, if necessary).

If you have Chorus fibre past your gate you will need to either pay for the link to your premesis, or come to a deal via your ISP (some will pay the up-front connectivity cost in return for a 2 or 3 year contract, for example.)


This is good info, thanks for that...




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2 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 743204 11-Jan-2013 10:57 Send private message

To be honest, controlling latency on internet and thus the throughput will be quiet hard.

I am not trying to advertise our product, but to give you an idea that on a home TCL broadband connection in Wellington, I manage to get 60Mbps download for cold data from O-365. If the data is warm, it is almost instantaneous.

if you really have an issue with O-365 performance, I would strongly recommend you looking at our Steelhead Cloud accelerator solution.

Infact, Riverbed Steelhead Cloud Accelerator won "Best of TechEd 2012 Award" .
http://www.riverbed.com/us/company/news/press_releases/2012/press_070312.php

cheers
Trib

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  Reply # 743335 11-Jan-2013 15:12 Send private message

i'm using Callplus for fibre connectivity, they will deliver solutions over Vector, Telstra or Telecom fibre. We have previously had vector and telstra fibre but are currently using Telecom fibre.

Callplus also uses Global Gateway for their international transit so performance is similar to telecom - depending on what kind of bandwidth you pay for.




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  Reply # 743341 11-Jan-2013 15:20 Send private message

Zeon:
blur:
Regs:

who is your ISP and what is your connection type?


Our ISP is Telecom and we connect with a 2Wire 2701HGV-W Gateway. It tells me that we are connected at 16428Kbps down and 875Kbps up.

Since this outage, I have started to query other service providers for other options in terms of more business focused solutions.

Any suggestions in this regard?


This issue isn't related to the ISP but rather is a symptom of the way the internet is designed and works. The only advantage of paying your ISP $1000 a month instead of $100 is they may sort out routing issues with other parties on your behalf but that is not guaranteed  Where there are carriers in between you lose control and as can be seen, Telecom cannot influence the routes without Singtel/Microsoft support.

If you want greater reliability choose a New Zealand based provider where there is control.....


Both the ISP and type of connection are completely relevant.  

First of all, the average DSL connection adds another 30-40ms latency over and above what you get on fibre connections.

If you are on a home DSL connection, you're likely lumped into an international bandwidth pool shared with dozens, or hundreds, of users.  Performance is always going to be stressed at peak times, and after an outage like this those peak times could run a bit longer as clients 'catch up' on their synchronisations.  Additionally, if you have a bunch of queued email synchronising to singapore and filling up your measly 800k upload pipe, that will also reduce your download speeds.

Its also relevant from the point of view of routing.  When i was doing some testing last year, there were wildly differing bandwitdh and latency between different ISPs depending on what they do for their international transit.  Callplus and Telecom, for example, always routed singapore traffic via perth with latency around 120-130ms.  Orcon always routed it via the United States with latency 300ms+.  Along with the higher latency, the throughput seemed to be less than half via orcon also.




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BDFL
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  Reply # 744445 14-Jan-2013 11:44 Send private message

Juha has now reported this on ITNews.au.


A spokesperson for Microsoft told iTnews today - after several days of silence on the matter - that "at present the Office 365 Services Health Dashboard shows no current issues.

"We?re investigating the server issues [you have] outlined to see how/if NZ and Australia were effected [sic] during this time," the spokesperson said.


Sure, come late to the party Microsoft.

Also, moved this to the appropriate forum as this wasn't a Telecom New Zealand problem.




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  Reply # 744482 14-Jan-2013 12:51 Send private message

One thing is a "contact" another is an official statement from the company. Juha wanted an official statement and that's what came out.




Juha
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  Reply # 744587 14-Jan-2013 15:01 Send private message

Yes, what Mauricio says - wanted an official explanation from Microsoft.




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  Reply # 744711 14-Jan-2013 18:42 Send private message

Yep I get that, just interested by the variety of responses in comparison to the official word.

Juha
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  Reply # 744732 14-Jan-2013 19:08 Send private message

gehenna: Yep I get that, just interested by the variety of responses in comparison to the official word.


So am I! Cool




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  Reply # 744912 15-Jan-2013 10:47 Send private message

bender: No there is still the remaining issue of why Global Gateway is receiving the return path via Los Angeles. 

The performance will be terrible rather than the ~120ms path from Singapore back to NZ via Australia.



There is a speed issue (due to routing) between NZ and Office 365 servers located in Microsoft’s server farm with the provider in Singapore. Your post above confirms my belief that NZ customers should be demanding better service from Microsoft so they can put pressure on their provider, SingTel to work with Telecom to resolve the issue.


Isn't there a big fibre cut on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEA-ME-WE_3 between Australian and Singapore that's going to take weeks to repair at the moment?

Looks like Telecom/Global Gateway to Singapore is taking an alternative path via Sydney and Japan instead the normal Auckland > Perth > Singapore.

Also looks the return path from Singapore to Telecom is going via US.

Much higher latency and packet loss on these backup/alternative routes.







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  Reply # 744938 15-Jan-2013 11:16 Send private message

Ragnor:

Isn't there a big fibre cut on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEA-ME-WE_3 between Australian and Singapore that's going to take weeks to repair at the moment?

Looks like Telecom/Global Gateway to Singapore is taking an alternative path via Sydney and Japan instead the normal Auckland > Perth > Singapore.


Looking forward to an update on whether the ASSC-1 cable is going ahead & when it is due for completion...  if it does eventuate, it is likely to boost the internet throughput into singapore significantly.  Not sure if 'no news is good news' though... cant find any updates since mar/2012 and those indicated potential issues with finance and the aussie govt/huawei relationship.




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 745256 15-Jan-2013 18:38 Send private message

Ragnor:

Isn't there a big fibre cut on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEA-ME-WE_3 between Australian and Singapore that's going to take weeks to repair at the moment?



That's what Telecom are telling us too. We're in the middle of trying to Pilot a full hybrid Exchange on-prem/O365 solution. Wondering now, maybe we would have been better to put the tenant in the US!

Ah yep, right there in the wikipedia article:

On 10 January 2013, the cable was again severed, this time 1,126 kilometres from the Tuas cable station in Singapore, between repeaters 345 and 346.[10]





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  Reply # 745294 15-Jan-2013 20:09 Send private message

Story updated with comment from Telecom - apparently it was due to Microsoft changes.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/328157,singtel-routing-glitch-stalls-office-365.aspx




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