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  Reply # 419243 19-Dec-2010 23:14

freitasm:
Bung: "Sellers cannot exempt themselves from their obligations under the Act, even if they put it in a contract. So, if a retailer puts up a sign saying "No refunds or exchanges" it is meaningless. You still have full rights under the Act."

Where is this quote from?

 


It comes from the Consumer web site,  the non lawyer source of most comment on the CGA.

I just thought that Telecom could give the impression that the 0800 number was part of their process even giving variation on the number that would alert the call centre as to which retailer was involved.

That wouldn't leave the customer thinking that the relationship ended at the cash register.

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  Reply # 419244 19-Dec-2010 23:15 Send private message

DonGould:
freitasm:I am just saying Tivo is not licensed and produced by Telecom.


Oh, sorry, I didn't clearly understand what you were say.... I'm still not really sure how or why that comment pertains to the discussion, but yes, I agree, TiVo is not a product/service manufactured by Telecom unlike 'XT' for example, which is a Telecom brand.



Phew... That's it.

And to make it clear, I agree the service received in store was poor. Retail professionals should all be trained and know the consumers' rights by heart. Dismissing a customer with a "that's not how we do it with electronics" is unacceptable.

So my take on this:

- Customer should have been told when buying the TiVo how warranty/replacement works
- Customer should be reminded in store how warranty/replacement works when approaching store with a question.
- Sales person should have offered to place a call to TiVo and handed the phone over to customer
- Sales person should have said "I am sorry you are experiencing problems with a product we sold through our store. I will help you find a way to get this fixed as soon as possible."

 




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  Reply # 419246 19-Dec-2010 23:21 Send private message

freitasm: My previous post was just to clear up the misunderstanding that TiVo is a Telecom product.


Actually I think the point being made what that 'the product' is simply sold by 'the seller' in this case just happened to be Telecom. 

Where was it being suggested that Telecom were the manufacture?

freitasm:Do you folks realise now you are dealing with at least three entities here, not two? 


Actually I thought the whole point of the thread was that there are only two parties in the contract.

Buyer:  the OP (unclear of the OPs real name)
Seller:  Telecom Store in Riccarton Mall, Christchurch (unclear who owns it - not really relevant is it?)

Why is an understanding of the structure of the wholesale distribution, sales and support of the product even relevant?





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  Reply # 419249 19-Dec-2010 23:35 Send private message

freitasm:  Phew... That's it.

And to make it clear, I agree the service received in store was poor. Retail professionals should all be trained and know the consumers' rights by heart. Dismissing a customer with a "that's not how we do it with electronics" is unacceptable.

So my take on this:

- Customer should have been told when buying the TiVo how warranty/replacement works
- Customer should be reminded in store how warranty/replacement works when approaching store with a question.
- Sales person should have offered to place a call to TiVo and handed the phone over to customer
- Sales person should have said "I am sorry you are experiencing problems with a product we sold through our store. I will help you find a way to get this fixed as soon as possible."

 


Ok, now there's a post I can 100% agree with...

Thanks for a lively debate guys :)

I do hope the OP gets his TiVo sorted and someone from Telecom reads this and give the manager at the Telecom store in Riccarton a quick heads up that perhaps his staff need a refresher on how to not get us all ranting on GZ on Sunday afternoon! ;)

...and on that note I'm getting called to bed so I'll stop ranting on GZ for tonight and catch you all in the 1's and 0's soon.




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  Reply # 419347 20-Dec-2010 11:11 Send private message

Bung:
freitasm:
Bung: "Sellers cannot exempt themselves from their obligations under the Act, even if they put it in a contract. So, if a retailer puts up a sign saying "No refunds or exchanges" it is meaningless. You still have full rights under the Act."

Where is this quote from?

 


It comes from the Consumer web site,  the non lawyer source of most comment on the CGA.

I just thought that Telecom could give the impression that the 0800 number was part of their process even giving variation on the number that would alert the call centre as to which retailer was involved.

That wouldn't leave the customer thinking that the relationship ended at the cash register.



Actually , Fisher and Paykel/Noel Leeming believe they can contract out of the act.

I'm currently going through the disputes tribunal with them :)

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  Reply # 419654 20-Dec-2010 19:49 Send private message

DonGould:
freitasm:  Phew... That's it.

And to make it clear, I agree the service received in store was poor. Retail professionals should all be trained and know the consumers' rights by heart. Dismissing a customer with a "that's not how we do it with electronics" is unacceptable.

So my take on this:

- Customer should have been told when buying the TiVo how warranty/replacement works
- Customer should be reminded in store how warranty/replacement works when approaching store with a question.
- Sales person should have offered to place a call to TiVo and handed the phone over to customer
- Sales person should have said "I am sorry you are experiencing problems with a product we sold through our store. I will help you find a way to get this fixed as soon as possible."

 


Ok, now there's a post I can 100% agree with...

Thanks for a lively debate guys :)

I do hope the OP gets his TiVo sorted and someone from Telecom reads this and give the manager at the Telecom store in Riccarton a quick heads up that perhaps his staff need a refresher on how to not get us all ranting on GZ on Sunday afternoon! ;)

...and on that note I'm getting called to bed so I'll stop ranting on GZ for tonight and catch you all in the 1's and 0's soon.

Don't forget, part of the Tivo fault finding process is all about the machine being plugged in, irrespective of whether it appears to be booting or not.  Maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling there would be a technical difficulty doing this with the Tivo unit packed up in a box at a retail store - rather than being plugged into the consumers grid.

That doesn't excuse poor service and the store person should have carefully explained this.  Or perhaps they did but the OP got heated up and forgot this?

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  Reply # 420047 21-Dec-2010 17:31 Send private message

I think that the OP would have had far less inconvenience just phoning Tivo, and going through their troubleshooting process. If there was a fault with the tivo unit, then it appears they will send you a new one before you send the other one back, so you aren't without a tivo at any stage. Returning it to the retailer to sort it out, leaves you without a tivo to use in the meantime.

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  Reply # 420062 21-Dec-2010 18:06 Send private message

mattwnz: leaves you without a tivo to use in the meantime.


It's an interesting point where CGA is concerned.  The deal is repair, replace or refund with in a reasonable amount of time.

Reasonable is based on usage not on time to service.

So, if the appliance is used all day then it's reasonable to expect an on the spot replacement.  If on the other hand you're talking about a lawn mower which you use once a week or once every couple of weeks then a week to sort it out is reasonable.

Accepting the offer to be a seller of a product, you have to make sure you can deliver the service level that the CGA requires....  again, I'm not sure why anyone would want to sell stuff to consumers!

In the case of the OP, his appliance has a fault making it inoperable.  Waiting 2 days for a replacement to get to chch from akl is unreasonable.  Picking up a replacement, credit or loan unit from the retailer he purchased it from is acceptable.

D




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  Reply # 420064 21-Dec-2010 18:21 Send private message

DonGould: In the case of the OP, his appliance has a fault making it inoperable.  Waiting 2 days for a replacement to get to chch from akl is unreasonable.  Picking up a replacement, credit or loan unit from the retailer he purchased it from is acceptable.


You are in IT, and you know how it works. I have a Dell Zino, logged a fault with Dell and they scheduled a technician to come to my home to replace the motherboard - but only when the replacement arrived. So it took about three days for it to happen.

In the case of the OP he could just have called TiVo, and have a unit sent to him, even before he sent the old one back. In the best case an overnight delivery, the worse case a couple of days.

I think it's not unreasonable at all, and actually a good service. Saves even the hasle of having to deal with a store (which we already established wasn't even prepared to provide the information the OP needed).







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  Reply # 420079 21-Dec-2010 18:59 Send private message

DonGould:
mattwnz: leaves you without a tivo to use in the meantime.


It's an interesting point where CGA is concerned.  The deal is repair, replace or refund with in a reasonable amount of time.

Reasonable is based on usage not on time to service.

So, if the appliance is used all day then it's reasonable to expect an on the spot replacement.  If on the other hand you're talking about a lawn mower which you use once a week or once every couple of weeks then a week to sort it out is reasonable.

Accepting the offer to be a seller of a product, you have to make sure you can deliver the service level that the CGA requires....  again, I'm not sure why anyone would want to sell stuff to consumers!

In the case of the OP, his appliance has a fault making it inoperable.  Waiting 2 days for a replacement to get to chch from akl is unreasonable.  Picking up a replacement, credit or loan unit from the retailer he purchased it from is acceptable.

D

I'm not sure that part about an immediate replacement/loan is true.

consider this example:
http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/consumer-guarantees-act/your-questions-answered


I bought a microwave on Tuesday knowing that I was hosting a dinner party on Saturday. The microwave is faulty and won't be repaired in time. Can I demand that the store gives me a loan one until mine is repaired?

Unfortunately there is nothing in the CGA to help you in this situation. The law doesn't give you a right to a continuous possession of a working appliance just because you have bought one. We suggest that you ask the store and appeal to their sense of customer service.

 

If you can't even get a loan device on a microwave, something far more of a necessity than a PVR, then i doubt you can demand an instant replacement/loan for a TiVo or similar device.

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  Reply # 420086 21-Dec-2010 19:08 Send private message

I did qualify my comments earlier saying that I hadn't had a close look in some time.

Last time I have a close look the ComCom were publishing doc on paper not 1's and 0's.

The CGA came about due to poor performance in the retail sector. I guess my main focus in this debate is that the retailers need to keep their game up if they don't want to give traction to consumer advocates getting even tougher rules in place.

Kmart, for example, have a 12 month policy of just replacing an item or refunding it if the customer asks. You don't even need to prove you purchased it from them, you just need to glare hard enough at a line manager.

DSE have a 14 day return policy - no questions asked.





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  Reply # 420087 21-Dec-2010 19:09 Send private message

NonprayingMantis: 
I'm not sure that part about an immediate replacement/loan is true.




 

In tivos case, I think it is true, as it states the following on the tivo website. I however wonder what happens if you are outside the warrenty period, but within the CGA period, whether it would be as easy. I also wonder if the replacement is a refurbished unit, or new.

 

Step 1
If you believe your TiVo requires replacement under warranty, please submit an enquiry to our Customer Support team.

Step 2
After submitting your enquiry, a Support Technician will get in touch with you to troubleshoot your issue and verify the reported fault. They will then arrange delivery of your replacement product. There is no cost for this as long as you have met the warranty criteria.

Step 3
A courier will come first to drop off your replacement product. If you are exchanging your TiVo® media device, please activate the replacement TiVo® online before you set it up. This will make setting up your replacement media device much easier.

Step 4
Your previous settings cannot be transferred to the new media device so you'll need to set these up again. Recordings on your old device cannot be transferred to the replacement device.

Step 5
The courier company will send a satchel with instructions on how to return your faulty product. Please follow these instructions carefully arrange for the return of your faulty product with the courier. Upon receipt, we will check the faulty product and if we determine the fault is not covered by the warranty (for example, it has damage such as that caused by liquids being spilt over it), or you fail to return the faulty equipment within 10 days of receiving the return satchel, we may charge an equipment replacement fee. We will be sure to inform you about this before applying the charges.





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  Reply # 420092 21-Dec-2010 19:15 Send private message

freitasm: Dell Zino


Ok, let's not get me started on Dell ;)

freitasm: In the case of the OP he could just have called TiVo


...and TiVo, if they're smart after reading this thread will put a massive sticker on the bottom on the unit telling the customer exactly that!

From what others have said here I completely agree and support the view that the service TiVo are offering does represent very good value!

Don't get me wrong on that point please.

I accept that I initially was not very inclined to vote 'tivo' based on what I'd read.  But that was a big part of what I was driving at in my own comments - If you choose a retail chain to represent your product then do it with care and make sure they will represent your brand well - in this case I accept my view of TiVo was tainted by the performance of their retail partner.

D




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  Reply # 420113 21-Dec-2010 20:23 Send private message

DonGould: ...and TiVo, if they're smart after reading this thread will put a massive sticker on the bottom on the unit telling the customer exactly that!


I am not sure they even have enough people in New Zealand to keep an eye on Geekzone...

 




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  Reply # 420118 21-Dec-2010 20:29 Send private message

Really.... do you have geo limiting on gz now to only let kiwis read it... ok, guess that's fair.





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