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Topic # 129029 1-Sep-2013 18:45 Send private message

Hi all ... i'm really itching to get a canon 6D + 24-70mm f/2.8 II ... but if i'm going to sell a car to pay for this one thing it seems to be missing is ... ultra HD video capture ...

does anyone know if the full frame canons will get 4K video at some stage? surely they would? as simple as a firmware upgrade? or not so easy?

thanks

(I think the answer lies in their competitors - it seems whatever Nikon does Canon follows LOL)




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  Reply # 887898 1-Sep-2013 19:13 Send private message

Hmm Canon will want to protect their 1D C body, which is basically a 1D X with firmware and a better heatsink... for nearly twice the price. And they've threatened to MagicLantern that they will bring the full force of their legal department if they try to touch the 1D X firmware to enable 4K video.

Yet the new Samsung Galaxy Note III cell phone is rumored to record 4K video, because Samsung will use it to try and convince people to upgrade to their 4K TVs.

So yes, technically it's not difficult (just gotta have enough bandwidth and such inside the camera) but there's a lot of politics involved.

Nikon don't have a professional video business to protect, so yes, you're quite right that it could end up coming when Nikon does it. But Nikon haven't embraced DSLR video in the same way Canon have, so they may not add that feature until 4K is more common.

Having said all that, by the time big screen 4K TV's are affordable you might be ready to change your 6D body anyways. And at this stage it's not a sure thing that 4K will catch on. 3D didn't. And 4K will only be noticeable if you've either very close to the screen or have a truly massive TV. Your average home user with a 50" TV for example will never notice the difference.

I'd suggest getting the 6D, and the 24-70 f2.8 II is a truly fantastic lens. If in a few years when you and other people have a 4K TV you'd be able to pick up a Blackmagic 4K Camera for 'cheap', use your Canon lenses and record not just 4K but RAW video. And like comparing JPG photos to RAW photos, there's a much bigger difference there than there is in Full HD vs 4K. Especially in terms of dynamic range.

A few things to think about hopefully :)



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  Reply # 888085 2-Sep-2013 09:15 Send private message

galaxy note 3 with 4k video will disappoint me ! I thought the s4 was flagship and was so disappointed it didn't have 4k *sigh




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  Reply # 888105 2-Sep-2013 09:39 Send private message

Canon 4K I doubt would be very good anyway on any DSLR, their current 1080P video is compressed to all hell, and Canon are very protective over their existing far more expensive pro video product lines.



If you can move up to the 5D MK III you will be able to do 1080P RAW with a hack, using super fast but expensive compact flash cards, it doesn't damage the camera nor void the warranty, and the results are the best you will be able to get out of any DSLR.

Optionally you could look at Black Magic cameras, which are $5000AU and shoot 4K RAW, and can use canon lens'.

LINK

 Correction:  Black Magic uses a format that is compressed but appears 'lossless'



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  Reply # 888108 2-Sep-2013 09:43 Send private message

umm ... i'm after a a jack of all trades - which my 600D seems to do really well - my USD50 50mm 1.8 takes shots I can blow up to 60"x40" and perfect pixels! (only very slight chromatic aberration) ... and my sigma 18-250mm does amazing video (thanks to the superzoom capability). yes I use magic lantern to help me focus :D the APS-C bodies do NOT focus as well as the full frames

once you move up the full frames the lenses will kill me in $$$ .... after researching the full frame lenses (again) I have been thinking twice (again) - I think will stick with my el cheapo for now ... thanks




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  Reply # 888109 2-Sep-2013 09:46 Send private message

When Android supports 4K recording (which isn't, apparently, far off) the S4 may well get an update. The camera is high enough res (and is likely the camera the Note3 will use anyway).




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  Reply # 904661 29-Sep-2013 18:12 Send private message

There is one Canon which does 4K, the Canon EOS-1D C. It costly merely US$12k from B&H.

It is going to be a while yet until 4K is essential, heck TV is still using SD!!

Most Canon don't even truly resolve 1080! (is a little lower) A camera like a Panasonic GH2 will beat it for detail with ease.

There are also much more important things to be concerned about, such as dynamic range and low light capabilites. Areas where Panasonic and Nikon are beating Canon (unless you're getting the 5DmkIII or 1D C, but both are very poor value for money if you're only using it for video).



Go with the Nikon D5200 over the Canon 6D! The Nikon D5200 with the new Toshiba sensor so blows the Canon 6D for filmmaking out of the water it isn't even funny. (edit: although reading through the thread I see now you already have a Canon 600D, I'd suggest just sticking with that for another generation or two of upgrades and instead investing in other areas such as lighting/audio/lenses/support. But if you absolutely are itching that you *must* get an upgraded camera body consider either the BMPCC or Panasonic G6 because they'll be the biggest jump up in quality for your dollar, plus as they're both Micro Four Thirds mount you can still use all your Canon EF mount lenses on them).



Here is what I wrote a while ago about what camera I'd recommend:



Until recently it is the Panasonic GH2 which wins all comparisons for filmmaking on a budget:

http://www.zacuto.com/shootout-revenge-2012



Or you can skip ahead for the spoilers and see how the public voted:

http://nofilmschool.com/2012/07/winner-2012-zacuto-camera-shootout-is/



(it is an important point to take away however that "no favourite" was the winner! With GH2 second, above all others... so while GH2 is *the best* camera in the test, in the end camera choice matters less than you think)



Unfortunately GH2 is no longer in production, and second hand prices are very high because it is still so much in demand.



Many are seeing the Panasonic G6 as the true GH2 replacement camera rather than the GH3:



http://www.eoshd.com/content/10824/panasonic-g6-review-the-gh2-redux

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC_G6/

http://www.smallcamerabigpicture.com/panasonic-lumix-g6-review-a-complete-professionals-package/

http://mirrorlesscentral.com/is-the-new-panasonic-lumix-g6-an-affordable-hybrid-powerhouse/



http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/6788/panasonic-g6-topic-gh2-replacement-camera



(Personal-View.com is the forum run by Vitaly, who is the creator of the GH2 hack. Thus this site is the premier source of info on Panasonic mirrorless cameras for video work)



Thus I would recommend the Panasonic G6 as the #1 camera option, with the GH3 being another option.



Another fine alternative is the Nikon D5200.



It was Nikon which kicked off this incredible DSLR video revolution which we're experiencing, as they released the first ever DSLR with video: the Nikon D90 (is my GF's camera, I've used it for a few videos myself).



But it was Canon which truly released the first knockout success, the famous 5DmkII! (and then the cheaper Rebel T2i etc series) Somewhat by accident though.



And since then Canon has largely sat on their laurels and given very little video innovation to their customers.



This is allowed Nikon to clearly over take Canon in video performance, the only reason Canon is so adored still is because for historical reasons people are stuck with following and recommending Canon automatically.



http://www.eoshd.com/content/9653/nikon-d5200-review



http://www.eoshd.com/content/9713/nikon-d5200-vs-canon-5d-mark-iii



http://www.eoshd.com/content/9586/is-the-cheap-nikon-d5200-a-better-option-than-d800-for-video-no-moire-aliasing-and-good-detail



http://www.eoshd.com/content/9730/prores-vs-prores-a-first-look-at-uncompressed-hdmi-with-the-nikon-d5200-vs-the-blackmagic-cinema-camera



(EOSHD.com is one of the top few sites for DSLR video makers for tech info)



Personally if I was to return to Nikon for video (my first DSLR is my Nikon D50, and I still use it as my "everyday camera" for photography, but it sadly lacks video) I'd however go for the Nikon D7100 (http://nofilmschool.com/2013/02/nikon-d7100-aps-c-dslr-uncompressed-hdmi-1200-price-cost/), however largely only because the D5200 is lacking an internal focus motor (which my D50 has) and I'd like to be able to keep on using my old Nikon lenses! But for new person out who doesn't have any old Nikon lenses then the D5200 is a much better idea as it is so much cheaper than the D7100.



Another final consideration to make is the Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema Camera.



If you're tossing up between the Panasonic G6 (the best video "DSLR" in that price range) or the BMPCC then I would look at it this way:

would the Panasonic G6 be your first ever video "DSLR"? If so, then get the Panasonic G6!



If you already have a DSLR:

Are you already comfortable using it and you feel like you really get a lot out of your current DSLR? Great, then get the BMPCC!



Otherwise stick with your current DSLR to keep on using it and learning! (unless it is a super old crappy one like the Nikon D90, then it is a 50/50 toss up as to if sticking with it for another year or so until you've learned more in how to use it as a filmmaking tool, *OR* leap for the Panasonic G6).





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  Reply # 904692 29-Sep-2013 18:31 Send private message

Thanks damn for the summary mate :-)

Does the canon hack magic lantern bring canon back into a level playing field with the others do you think?

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  Reply # 907538 3-Oct-2013 23:29 Send private message

Canon really has been so lucky, they kinda stumbled into being a favourite for videomakers.

Although Nikon was first with the D90 it was kinda crippled (lack of manual controls and only 720, not full HD) so when Canon happened to release the 5DmkII they had a blockbuster success.

But then since then they really haven't gone anywhere with their HDSLRs.... incremental improvements at best.

They did bring out the 1D C, C100, C300, and C500 however, but these are operating in a whole different price level to what average joes can consider affording!

Then just as it seems Canon might maybe in the near future be about to be passing away into obscurity (from the perspective of the indie / amature / hobbyist / low budget filmmaker or video producer , of course they along with Nikon remain dominant and strong for photography) as the rising options of Blackmagic Design / Digital Bolex / KineRAW / & others because viable, Canon gets (through no efforts of their own) the ability to record RAW video!! Which puts them right back into the game again.

However, only RAW with a Canon 50D, 5DmkII, or 5DmkIII is really an option and RAW workflow with a Canon is even more of a hassle than with others by a big margin. So really, I think for most people (unless you really know what you're doing and full understand what you're getting yourself into with its benefits and drawbacks) that it is safe to completely ignore RAW recording on Canon DSLRs when they're making their purchasing decisions.





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  Reply # 907743 4-Oct-2013 10:43 Send private message

Yeah the RAW situation is a non event for me as I don't think I could be bothered with the workflow required to work with it, regardless of the image benefits.

Canon appear to be in the game mainly by virtue of having an excellent alternative firmware developed by crowd sourcing. This keeps them going as the likes of a 600D are very well priced, and you can then apply a video specific firmware to it.

But yeah, agree with the move towards smaller mirrorless options. Hopefully lenses can be utilised on both, as it's the lenses that often cost the money or alternatively provide a specific look. I'm a fan of Pentax for instance where you have access to years worth of manual focus prime lenses. I just wish Pentax would do something to up the bitrates of their camera offerings.

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  Reply # 908052 4-Oct-2013 18:28 Send private message

While the Canon 600D is quite affordable, so is the Panasonic GH1/GH2/G6/etc.... (often cheaper even!) and they deliver significantly much better video performance.

I have quite a lot of older Pentax K mount lenses, which I all use on my Micro Four Thirds cameras, simply with an adapter.




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