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Topic # 110430 9-Oct-2012 15:14 Send private message

With the failed launches of Wheedle and ListSellTrade, and Geta on the horizon, what do you think is required to build a competitor to actually give TradeMe a run for their money?

... or is TradeMe just too big now to be taken on?

(highly recommend reading this blog post from Dylan Bland, ex Zillion)




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  Reply # 698467 9-Oct-2012 15:19 Send private message

Facebook could do it, as they have the critical mass. But I don't think anyone else can do it, as without a critical mass it is impossible. These other trading websites have no hope unless they find a niche, but I would love them to be proven wrong. Sella have a valid competitive platform, but don't have the critcal mass to match it with. Telecom could have done it years ago when they had the majority of internet customers, but they mucked up with ferrit, which was really a nothing idea. What NZ needs is a type of amazon store, which is still missing from NZ.

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  Reply # 698471 9-Oct-2012 15:21 Send private message

A bit off topic but... Why did Fairfax/Stuff create a brand new membership thing that requires registration instead of using Trade Me as an authentication provider? They have lots of people already "certified" there...




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  Reply # 698477 9-Oct-2012 15:23 Send private message

To be honest, I think it can be done. Once upon a time MS was the biggest company of it's type, so was Blackberry.

If you took the 10 things people most dislike about trademe and put that into another site with a proper launch I think it's a reasonable start. listselltrade, I don't see being worth much to anyone except dealers, since you aren't going to pay $10 a month if you don't know what you will list each month.




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  Reply # 698478 9-Oct-2012 15:24 Send private message

mattwnz: Sella have a valid competitive platform, but don't have the critcal mass to match it with.


I think Sella proves that the business case of "cheaper than TradeMe" isn't enough - you need more.

I also wonder that these new sites keep saying kiwis are sick of TradeMe's high fees, but are they? There doesn't seem to be a mass exodus to competitors after the latest increase, and I wonder if Fairfax will keep ratcheting up fees without any adverse effect.




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  Reply # 698482 9-Oct-2012 15:27 Send private message

nate:
mattwnz: Sella have a valid competitive platform, but don't have the critcal mass to match it with.


I think Sella proves that the business case of "cheaper than TradeMe" isn't enough - you need more.

I also wonder that these new sites keep saying kiwis are sick of TradeMe's high fees, but are they? There doesn't seem to be a mass exodus to competitors after the latest increase, and I wonder if Fairfax will keep ratcheting up fees without any adverse effect.


No mass exodus because I'd suggest people don't know about sella. I spoke to 8 people on Friday night and not ONE of them knew sella existed. I think that TM have google brand power in NZ. People think buy something sell something, they think sella. 

Perhaps someone needs to throw some serious marketing money at Sella. 



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  Reply # 698491 9-Oct-2012 15:28 Send private message

I look at it this way: are fees high? Maybe. But I can't get my items viewed by as many people anywhere else.




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  Reply # 698499 9-Oct-2012 15:35 Send private message

For someone to muscle their way in I think that they'd already have to have a successful and known brand behind it.

eBay could do it - they have a number of things in their favor for getting in on the action: international markets, easy and secure payment system that links to bank accounts or credit cards (PayPal), links to postal services (I assume if they entered the NZ market they would partner up with NZ Post to offer online postage)...

ETA - ability to combine multiple auctions wins by one person and invoice them appropriately; visually nicer than TM; easy system to update an auction with whether it has shipped or not (and the updates for to the buyer!) - and it shows if payment has been made (automatically); a disputes resolution service (albeit designed to be heavily in the buyers favor); and the list goes one

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  Reply # 698500 9-Oct-2012 15:36 Send private message

You have to look at the fees in terms of the value. If I can sell and item for $500 and pay Trade Me $30 for the privilege, I'm better off unless I can get at least $471+ for the same item on another website.

Without the user base of Trade Me, it's much less likely that you will get the same level of interest in your item, and therefore it may go for a lower price.

Getting the critical mass is the hard part - and it's a chicken and egg situation. I'm not sure even Facebook could pull it off to be honest, I still have a number of family members who have been Trade Me users for years that have absolutely no interest in getting a Facebook account. It would also be a huge investment for Facebook to get up and running, and something that is way out of their current market.

I doubt they would ever attempt it. It would be very hard for them to challenge eBay or Amazon in the US and other places, and I doubt they are going to build a selling platform just for little old New Zealand.




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  Reply # 698502 9-Oct-2012 15:39 Send private message

magu: I look at it this way: are fees high? Maybe. But I can't get my items viewed by as many people anywhere else.


That is why facebook has a huge advantage. eg on everyones page they have a sidebar with trading options, and auctions, products that maybe relevant to them.

The other thing trademe has is a big online community, which keeps their website 'sticky' for many people.

The other site that could do it is Ebay, simply because it is a well known brand all around the world, and many NZers will already be familiar with the ebay brand. But they would need to pump in a lot of money for advertising.

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  Reply # 698503 9-Oct-2012 15:40 Send private message

I would say the key to making a credible alternative to TradeMe is adding things that TradeMe doesn't have. 

One would be being able to buy things outside NZ, I think eBay has this feature. 

Another would be streamlining the shipping process, possibly by way of a partnership with NZ Post or a courier company. This could be integrated with the above. 

Possibly, making the experience better for traditional retailers like JB HiFi, DSE and that. But, of course, they don't want you to comparison shop so that would be tough. 

Even more out there would be integrating it with digital content sale. I'm just putting it out there and have no idea how it would work. Possibly a partnership with QuickFlix?

In essence first you would need a big pile of cash, then you need to make sure have a service which will actually work on day one as you won't get a second chance, third ask "What can we add TradeMe doesn't have? No, not 'social networking', something people will actually pay for." 






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  Reply # 698505 9-Oct-2012 15:42 Send private message

keewee01: For someone to muscle their way in I think that they'd already have to have a successful and known brand behind it.

eBay could do it - they have a number of things in their favor for getting in on the action: international markets, easy and secure payment system that links to bank accounts or credit cards (PayPal), links to postal services (I assume if they entered the NZ market they would partner up with NZ Post to offer online postage)...


eBay already tried and failed. And back when they did try, Trade Me didn't have anywhere near the footprint and stronghold on the market it does now.




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  Reply # 698507 9-Oct-2012 15:47 One person supports this post Send private message

what i would consider
1. 10 free listings a month for regular users, if you just want to sell the odd thing or two, you shouldnt be charged
2. advanced search, searching on trademe is a pita at times, sella is way worse
3. some really high profile auctions, oodles of them, you need to get people going there, you will spend lots of money but you have to get people going to your site and signing up (login with facebook is a good idea)
4. iphone/android/wp app
5. emails with suggested auctions you might like (has to be done well, but hopefully keep people coming back), eg if you loose an auction, send an email with similar auctions (handy for games etc)
6. nz owned and operated is good
7. provide pay by credit card for free (trademe charge you for this)
8. use paypal as an option
9. give away random prizes at first for those who list items to sell.

i hate trademe, their fees are crazy, the 0900 support number is crazy, they make crap loads of money and arent kept in line. selling a laptop on trademe costs about $100 in success fees.

im a developer and could fairly easily make a trademe like site, but it wouldnt succeed because i dont have the money to back it. you need a lot of money. saying "hey this is easy, i can do this in a week" is all well and good, but its more than just the programming.

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  Reply # 698508 9-Oct-2012 15:47 Send private message

ajobbins:
keewee01: For someone to muscle their way in I think that they'd already have to have a successful and known brand behind it.

eBay could do it - they have a number of things in their favor for getting in on the action: international markets, easy and secure payment system that links to bank accounts or credit cards (PayPal), links to postal services (I assume if they entered the NZ market they would partner up with NZ Post to offer online postage)...


eBay already tried and failed. And back when they did try, Trade Me didn't have anywhere near the footprint and stronghold on the market it does now.


I hadn't realised that they've tried. When was that?

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  Reply # 698509 9-Oct-2012 15:48 Send private message

crackrdbycracku: I would say the key to making a credible alternative to TradeMe is adding things that TradeMe doesn't have. 

One would be being able to buy things outside NZ, I think eBay has this feature. 


HUGE fraud risk - very hard to police and little recourse for buyers duped by overseas scammers

Another would be streamlining the shipping process, possibly by way of a partnership with NZ Post or a courier company. This could be integrated with the above. 


I think TM has tried this before. Certainly there is some potential here, but not sure there is much money in it for the trading site.

Possibly, making the experience better for traditional retailers like JB HiFi, DSE and that. But, of course, they don't want you to comparison shop so that would be tough. 


Sound like Ferrit. We all know how that ended.

Even more out there would be integrating it with digital content sale. I'm just putting it out there and have no idea how it would work. Possibly a partnership with QuickFlix?


This would be VERY interesting. I wonder if Trade Me has it on the agenda.

In essence first you would need a big pile of cash, then you need to make sure have a service which will actually work on day one as you won't get a second chance, third ask "What can we add TradeMe doesn't have? No, not 'social networking', something people will actually pay for."


Also you need a crapload of users and listing on day one (or very soon afterwards) - that is the biggest challenge. You can't rely on organic growth as you will fail before you become profitable. You need a way to get users to move en masse.




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  Reply # 698512 9-Oct-2012 15:49 Send private message

ajobbins:
keewee01: For someone to muscle their way in I think that they'd already have to have a successful and known brand behind it.

eBay could do it - they have a number of things in their favor for getting in on the action: international markets, easy and secure payment system that links to bank accounts or credit cards (PayPal), links to postal services (I assume if they entered the NZ market they would partner up with NZ Post to offer online postage)...


eBay already tried and failed. And back when they did try, Trade Me didn't have anywhere near the footprint and stronghold on the market it does now.


They did, but it was a pretty weak attempt. I think the current ebay dot co dot nz site is still the same old site they tried it with based on the old outdated website.

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