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  Reply # 698513 9-Oct-2012 15:50 Send private message

keewee01: I hadn't realised that they've tried. When was that?


They first had a go back in 2001. Back when the market was still very much up for grabs.




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  Reply # 698514 9-Oct-2012 15:51 Send private message

mattwnz:
magu: I look at it this way: are fees high? Maybe. But I can't get my items viewed by as many people anywhere else.


That is why facebook has a huge advantage. eg on everyones page they have a sidebar with trading options, and auctions, products that maybe relevant to them.


You folks overestimate Facebook presence amongst users over a certain age...








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Reply # 698517 9-Oct-2012 15:53 Send private message

reven: ... but its more than just the programming.


Something I feel these newcomers have failed to grasp.




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  Reply # 698518 9-Oct-2012 15:53 Send private message

@ ajobbins

If it was easy then everybody would do it. Laughing

I think the 'sweet spot' between how much money you would have to spend vs how much money you would make is very small. 

I think Wheedle proved that combining a service which doesn't work with a 'it's like TradeMe but cheaper' line is most definitely NOT the way forward.  




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  Reply # 698524 9-Oct-2012 16:00 Send private message

crackrdbycracku: I think Wheedle proved that combining a service which doesn't work with a 'it's like TradeMe but cheaper' line is most definitely NOT the way forward.  


Add to this the sheer technical incompetence of their programming/platform staff.




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  Reply # 698526 9-Oct-2012 16:02 Send private message

reven: what i would consider
1. 10 free listings a month for regular users, if you just want to sell the odd thing or two, you shouldnt be charged


Think of the long tail. Trade Me probably make 20-30% of their profit from the big sellers, and the rest from the hunderds of thousands of people only selling a few things at a time.

2. advanced search, searching on trademe is a pita at times, sella is way worse


To do this well you really need to start using attributes, and with the many categories it can become very hard to do. Agree this could be done better tho.

3. some really high profile auctions, oodles of them, you need to get people going there, you will spend lots of money but you have to get people going to your site and signing up (login with facebook is a good idea)


You need a critical mass for this to work. Trying to get big names to run high profile auctions will only happen if you have the punters there.

4. iphone/android/wp app


TM have mobile apps. It's kind of a have to have nowadays, rather than a bonus.

5. emails with suggested auctions you might like (has to be done well, but hopefully keep people coming back), eg if you loose an auction, send an email with similar auctions (handy for games etc)


Trade Me have this (The Buzzy Bee) on the site - people don't like lots of emails.

6. nz owned and operated is good


Does anyone really care that much? Selling to Fairfax didn't seem to do any harm to Trade Me.

7. provide pay by credit card for free (trademe charge you for this)


Who will may the merchant fees then? Trade Me simply pass on the charges that they wear from their bank for processing a card.

8. use paypal as an option


Problem with this is they don't control it. It works for eBay because they are linked. If you have a dispute, you can take it up with PayPal and they can work with eBay. I suspect they would have little interest in working with someone like Trade me.

9. give away random prizes at first for those who list items to sell.


Everyone does this.

i hate trademe, their fees are crazy, the 0900 support number is crazy, they make crap loads of money and arent kept in line. selling a laptop on trademe costs about $100 in success fees.


The 0900 support number is a good idea. If they went with a local number, or a toll free number they would probably have to increase the size of their call centre 10 fold. At least. Seriously.

im a developer and could fairly easily make a trademe like site, but it wouldnt succeed because i dont have the money to back it. you need a lot of money. saying "hey this is easy, i can do this in a week" is all well and good, but its more than just the programming.


If you had seen the inner working of Trade Me you wouldn't say that. It's not just a pretty web interface, the back end systems behind it are huge and complex. The web UI you interact with is just the tip of the iceberg.




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  Reply # 698539 9-Oct-2012 16:09 One person supports this post Send private message

I'd start-up my TM uncompetitive site (if I were going to) in a niche market.
Focus hard on getting momentum within that niche before expanding.

And the niche has to include a way to access the target market, and Facebook is that way.

A small targeted player will be far more agile in meeting the changing client needs than an incumbent

And then do a Sam Morgan and flick it when it's got some critical mass (and before another player comes along....)

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  Reply # 698544 9-Oct-2012 16:14 Send private message

Attempting to 'take on Trademe' is a path to failure.

I agree with oxnsox, if you can focus on a niche and gain momentum then I could see potential for success. You need a following before you can sell yourself into other/general markets.




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  Reply # 698549 9-Oct-2012 16:21 Send private message

I'd hazard a guess and say there has probably been over 100 man years worth of development in the Trade Me platform to date, with years of learnings and much trial and error.

Trying to knock up a competitor site is a few weeks or months isn't realistic.




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  Reply # 698553 9-Oct-2012 16:26 Send private message

nate: With the failed launches of Wheedle and ListSellTrade, and Geta on the horizon, what do you think is required to build a competitor to actually give TradeMe a run for their money?

All of them require a solid engine and platform to build on. Instead they are bogged down and will be for some time.

It is clear there is a market for a solid trading engine developed and maintained in New Zealand.

That is something I may be interested in contributing to.

nate: ... or is TradeMe just too big now to be taken on?

Sella has a respectable chunk already. This question is always asked about near monopolies. The reality is that growth can fall very fast when innovation is applied to the market or technological change overtakes a market sector.

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  Reply # 698555 9-Oct-2012 16:27 Send private message

What would it take? Masses of money and social networking, that's what.

The only way that a generalist trademe competitor (ignoring website implementation which we take as done [not by the same crowds who have done the recent ones though!]) is going to gain traction IMHO is:

1. Absolutely 100% free for at least a year, no questions.

2. Populate the site with boat loads of products, which they get from approaching retailers and distributors with the following offer: "we will do all the work to list your products, all we want is a list of your products in whatever form you can give them, we will put them all on our site, and keep re-listing when they are sold, it will be totally free of fees, but the price must be X% cheaper than you sell anywhere else".

3. Social networking. Yes, many like myself don't use social networks at all, but it's a force to be reckoned with, have a Facebook app that lets you show your listings on your facebook wall or whatever it is, allow using your facebook login, same for twitter "I just listed a .....", etc...

4. Massive advertising budget.





---
James Sleeman

My hobby - listing small amounts of interesting/useful hobby electronic components hardware and stuff on Trademe for cheap, all good geek stuff for the "maker" revolution ;-)

Tip for Trademe addicts: install an addon for your browser to get thumbs for all listings.

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  Reply # 698556 9-Oct-2012 16:30 Send private message

sleemanj: ...have a Facebook app that lets you show your listings on your facebook wall or whatever it is, allow using your facebook login, same for twitter "I just listed a .....", etc...


If any of my friends on Facebook started doing this, I would start hiding the posts or unfriend them. People hate this kind of thing clogging up their timelines (same applies to Twitter)




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  Reply # 698557 9-Oct-2012 16:34 Send private message

sleemanj: What would it take? Masses of money and social networking, that's what.

The only way that a generalist trademe competitor (ignoring website implementation which we take as done [not by the same crowds who have done the recent ones though!]) is going to gain traction IMHO is:

1. Absolutely 100% free for at least a year, no questions.

2. Populate the site with boat loads of products, which they get from approaching retailers and distributors with the following offer: "we will do all the work to list your products, all we want is a list of your products in whatever form you can give them, we will put them all on our site, and keep re-listing when they are sold, it will be totally free of fees, but the price must be X% cheaper than you sell anywhere else".

3. Social networking. Yes, many like myself don't use social networks at all, but it's a force to be reckoned with, have a Facebook app that lets you show your listings on your facebook wall or whatever it is, allow using your facebook login, same for twitter "I just listed a .....", etc...

4. Massive advertising budget.



5. Gamification - make it fun for users to keep coming back - even GZ has gamification now with its badges, make people feel as if theyre gaining something without spending money all the time.




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  Reply # 698562 9-Oct-2012 16:42 Send private message

xpd: gamification


This is a biggie, as it makes something addictive and 'sticky'. That is one reason why these ancestry websites are very popular, as you are achieving and growing your family tree, and is like playing a game.

Facebook is actually very popular with the older demographic, as it is a way to share photos. With many of their children now living overseas, it is one of the best ways to see your grandchildren I have been told.

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  Reply # 698567 9-Oct-2012 16:49 Send private message

mattwnz:
xpd: gamification


This is a biggie, as it makes something addictive and 'sticky'. That is one reason why these ancestry websites are very popular, as you are achieving and growing your family tree, and is like playing a game.

Facebook is actually very popular with the older demographic, as it is a way to share photos. With many of their children now living overseas, it is one of the best ways to see your grandchildren I have been told.


Yeah, but the more you do this the more you stop trying to take on TradeMe, getting into a bum kicking competition with a three legged man, and the more you are trying to take on Facebook, bum kicking competition with the giant spider. 

I also think this is the wrong question. It isn't 'How do we make this site somewhere people want to spend time so we can sell advertising?' but "How do we make this site somewhere people want to sell and buy stuff so we can take a cut?". 






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