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  Reply # 632987 30-May-2012 23:23 Send private message

Handle9:

On a more serious note this is the sort of unsupported solution that I'd be really upset about if it was approved. We (everyone who pays tax) are paying a great deal of money to have UFB implemented in a way that provides a robust solution for ordinary house and business owners. This sort of install is fine while you live there but when the next home owner comes along you've got a pile of wires and a transformer.

 


I honestly think if its a secure location, and the chorus service is tested to that location (just like an ADSL test at your ETP) then they should install it to that location. Anything behind that is not the responsibility of chorus.

Just because the ONT is installed on the side of a house vs another structure shouldnt make any difference.
For example. I have a radio network using radio towers around hawkes bay for my rural broadband service. I plan on placing some roadside cabinets around the district soon with small telegraph poles next to them for radio transmitters - exactly like cellphone towers but on a smaller scale and size. Or exactly like the telecom CMAR systems currently in place.

As far as chorus are concerned, they install the fibre to the point where I want. If i run it over ethernet to a house or up a pole to a radio transmitter its still none of their business. Just like they do with vodafone cellphone towers, PCM pedestals or DSL cabinets. 

So if i want it installed into a pedestal box at the end of my driveway, instead of a man sized cabinet, then they should be able to do that.

If the next home owner wants to have the fibre installed up to the house, then they can pay for it.




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  Reply # 632993 30-May-2012 23:28 Send private message

It may be that you feel that way, but I can assure you, your ISP and likely Chorus will NOT feel that way and I can't see them agreeing to it. Plus EVERY single time you have an issue they will point the finger at you.

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  Reply # 632996 30-May-2012 23:38 Send private message

I totally agree that this is going to become a really interesting space.

The question is going to be raised about why I can't just run my own fibre to the edge of my property or where ever Chorus stop paying for it and have it spliced.

Ray I agree with you. If I owned a property with 100m drive way then I'd be having a good hard look at alternatives. Gigibit on UTP will run a fair way.

I also wonder what impact 4G is going to have? If you're being offered a 30/10 service and asked for $500 notes to install it but can get 60/10 on a G4 connection then what do you think consumers are going to opt for?





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  Reply # 632999 30-May-2012 23:51 Send private message

I do own a property with a 100 metre driveway. When ADSL2+ isn't good enough for me anymore I'll get VDSL.

If the drive ever gets relaid (might do when insurance finally does something about the driveway cracks, I'll drop in my own conduit and strings.

But I'm still waiting to hear a reason I should get fibre over VDSL personally. I'm 400 metres from a cabinet so I can't think of any personally relevant reasons.

Cheers - N

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  Reply # 633007 31-May-2012 00:18 Send private message

Talkiet: I do own a property with a 100 metre driveway. When ADSL2+ isn't good enough for me anymore I'll get VDSL.

If the drive ever gets relaid (might do when insurance finally does something about the driveway cracks, I'll drop in my own conduit and strings.

But I'm still waiting to hear a reason I should get fibre over VDSL personally. I'm 400 metres from a cabinet so I can't think of any personally relevant reasons.

Cheers - N

Will VDSL let you buy services from 3 different RSPs at once? 







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  Reply # 633009 31-May-2012 00:31 Send private message

If you are close to a VDSL cabinet then sure, you might get a slight speed improvment by going to the basic 30/10 fibre service if your copper pair isnt perfect.

Fibre will allow you, as Don says to buy services from different providers - using the different ports on the ONT.

However i see you work for telecom. I am not sure what your salary package includes, but if it is a subsidised broadband service then you might be best to go for the VDSL if telecom offer it.

At the same time, i believe that the wholesale price to the ISP for the 30/10 fibre is cheaper than the telecom wholesale price for the VDSL - so the result should be that for the typical home, fibre is cheaper than VDSL. But in saying that, you are in a unique position where a $20 saving each month would be offset by a $1k+ install fee.

With running your own ducting, i dont know if chorus would run their fibre through it. Thats why my plan is to build my home network to the street, rather than do the ducting myself and pulling their network (fibre) through it. If you dig up your driveway, i would get the chorus people out to lay their ducting and their fibre into your trench so you can skip the directional drilling part of the install cost.




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  Reply # 633010 31-May-2012 00:34 Send private message

DonGould:
Talkiet: [snip]I can't think of any personally relevant reasons.  [snip]

Will VDSL let you buy services from 3 different RSPs at once? 


Snipped my own post for relevance.

I wouldn't use more than 1 RSP today, I can't see using more than one in the medium term and I certainly can't see paying $2500 more (at least) to have the opportunity to have separate RSPs when there are a bunch of perfectly acceptable options to have multiple services that don't necessarily require L2 separation of traffic.

It's partly devils advocate sure, and if the install wasn't coming (directly) out of my pocket, sure, I'd sign up in a flash...

But I just can't even conceive what is going to get me to part with $2500+ to get a different access method installed.

For the avoidance of doubt - I am perfectly happy recieving most of my TV service from a satellite.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 633011 31-May-2012 00:45 Send private message

raytaylor: [snip]


Oh, I'm more aware than most of the benefits UFB will bring, and the capability of the LFC services. They are neat, and glossing over some rough edges, will deliver a brilliant access network.

But will the services actually be better than a well put together DSL offering in terms of user experience? I don't think anyone will know the answer to that until volume is achieved in UFB rollouts.

The ducting statement was a casual comment - I believe that it will be possible to somehow get someone else to pay for a lot of the digging - whether that's putting conduit down myself or arranging something with the other 3 houses down the driveway I'm not sure yet.

I do get subsidised Broadband as part of my package - but that's not a major consideration. Until recently I had 2 ADSL lines here because Telecom Retail didn't have a single plan that satisfied my requirements... I'm happy to pay for what I need. With the most recent round of doubling the caps though, I couldn't justify the second line anymore so cancelled it.

I can't even justify VDSL yet (and I would happily pay a different provider for it if the pricing was closer to ADSL2+ than it is now), and I am a heavy user doing remote working, occasional video conferences, and running a continuous backup of over 1.3TB of data to a backup provider in the US. Add you know what? My 18mb/964kbit ADSL2+ connection doesn't even frustrate me in the slightest.

I'm no luddite - I love technology. I use flash digital cameras and have I think... let me count... 8 devices in the house that have GPS.

What I love even more than technology is cruising along gently behind the early adopter wave and getting great value for the money I spend.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 633024 31-May-2012 06:02 Send private message

Actually Neil I have to agree with all your points including the benefits of VDSL and the cost of the UFB, This is coming from someone who has been deploying fibre for a few years now ... everyone seems to be getting very excited by the fact its fibre and make no mistake it is a great access product and will provide for some areas of the market some great benefits but for the the average Joe Public well maybe not... value for money under the UFB constraints when better copper access products are available now ... I myself don't think so and I believe the takeup rates are going to be a real challenge.

Don't get me wrong here either as most of you know I am big pusher of Technology and a technology geek in the first degree especially in the world on VoIP so shouldn't I be over the moon about UFB, no not really its just an access product for us and all we are after are quality access products and these are here now !!!, for most people ADSL2+ is perfectively fine, for the next level VDSL is perfect a great product that delivers speeds that 90% of residential consumers wouldn't get the benefit from anyway there are also cable options in some areas that provide a great choice , I consume both and will in the next few weeks also be consuming a third with UFB product being installed (If my Chorus SDM guys are reading your not touching my copper you know that right :) ), UFB is a challenge for all and I think the issues around MTD (Multi Tenanted Apartments) and shared access is going to be a very large barrier to entry and will affect takeup rates... awful lot of government money being spent on what in theory looks good but practically was it needed.





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  Reply # 633066 31-May-2012 08:32 Send private message

DonGould: . If I owned a property with 100m drive way then I'd be having a good hard look at alternatives. Gigibit on UTP will run a fair way.


If you owned a property with a 100m driveway and it had a suitable conduit then you would be a standard installation. Fingers crossed that Chorus's own conduit would be considered "approved".

My reading of the Chorus standard install is (extract from chorus docs) A Standard Install for the Bitstream 2 Service to a Single Dwelling Unit includes:

(a) a Fibre Lead-in from the Fibre Access Point to an ETP at the closest convenient point on the End User Premises, as agreed with End User, where the Fibre Lead-in utilises no more than:

(i) 100m of approved conduit or open trench (already in place at the time of installation); or

(ii) a single span of aerial drop lead (available only in areas where there is overhead deployment); or

(iii) 15m of buried lead-in (available only in areas where there is underground deployment); and

So rather than putting in a conduit and run your own cat 5/6, why not just leave the conduit empty and let Chorus provide you with fibre all the way...

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  Reply # 633096 31-May-2012 09:07 Send private message

DonGould: I totally agree that this is going to become a really interesting space.

The question is going to be raised about why I can't just run my own fibre to the edge of my property or where ever Chorus stop paying for it and have it spliced.

Ray I agree with you. If I owned a property with 100m drive way then I'd be having a good hard look at alternatives. Gigibit on UTP will run a fair way.

I also wonder what impact 4G is going to have? If you're being offered a 30/10 service and asked for $500 notes to install it but can get 60/10 on a G4 connection then what do you think consumers are going to opt for?



I guess it would depend on latency requirements. I doubt they would be happy to skype HD, VOIP or game on a 4G Connection

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  Reply # 633127 31-May-2012 09:42 Send private message

antoniosk:
chevrolux:
cyril7: Anyone priced getting the gas on or getting the sh1t taken away, can easily cost way more than $2k. Recently we had our Gas main fail, its 20m from the street and the meter is down at the street so it was all my gas main, $2k didnt even touch the sides.

Cyril


And getting power to your property. Comms has always been the cheapest service to get to your house and yet people still moan. You pay for EVERYTHING when getting power to your new house and people don't care about that because they need it.


Yep. All that's happening is that it's the first time in goodness knows how long that a comms network is being rolled out to the mass base; the only people who ever delt with these questions previously were those building on new sections.... the minority of NZ...

Steve Biddle:$1k for an install? and the rest guv - easily $2.5k as an average measure.... coffee in Auckland is expensive, and breaking that volcanic rock takes time....


gas was free to connect in auckland..... except in my area!  (its a volcanic rock area)

they offered the connection free still if i dug my own trench so i took that option.  the first 10 meters were easy, but the last 2 took 12 hours with a jack hammer cutting through solid rock.  if i had encountered the rock in the first meter of digging i probably would have given up and paid for the install.




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  Reply # 633195 31-May-2012 10:43 Send private message

wired:

My reading of the Chorus standard install is (extract from chorus docs) A Standard Install for the Bitstream 2 Service to a Single Dwelling Unit includes:

(a) a Fibre Lead-in from the Fibre Access Point to an ETP at the closest convenient point on the End User Premises, as agreed with End User, where the Fibre Lead-in utilises no more than:

(i) 100m of approved conduit or open trench (already in place at the time of installation); or

...

(iii) 15m of buried lead-in (available only in areas where there is underground deployment); and

...

That's me stuffed.  It's going to have to be a very compelling ISP offering to make the business case stack up, me thinks.





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  Reply # 633199 31-May-2012 10:48 Send private message

Yah I think I am more than 15m back from the street. 25M would be more like it.

I dunno, I don't really see an issue spending 1-2K for installation of something which will increase the value of my property and is something I'll use 12+ hours a day in my house between at least 4 of us.. It's no different from the 2K we dropped (twice) getting our lawn relaid, or the outdoor furniture, or the many times more than that we spent upgrading our bathroom etc...

Having said that, I am realistically wondering if I would switch from VDSL which in every way meets my needs at this point.

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  Reply # 633223 31-May-2012 11:03 Send private message

I asked Orcon about this (by email) and they said that the average price is around $500 but that they'd have to send a tech out to provide an accurate cost. I asked for them to do so, and they stopped talking to me (I followed up after a week and still didn't hear anything back). Great service there!

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