Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.
Buying anything on Amazon? Please use the Geekzone Amazon aff link.


gzt



4671 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 263


Topic # 86869 14-Jul-2011 16:34 Send private message

I was taking this orcon thread a bit off topic with my discussion of emergency dialing and naked dsl / voip / ufb etc. This is a new thread to discuss those:

gzt: How does emergency dialing work on this kind of service?

Bee: +1 How DOES emergency dialling work with VOIP?  my understanding is that it doesnt?  so if everyone goes fibre and VOIP then we have a big problem if for instance the power goes out at night and you then start a fire by tripping over your gas heater and you dont have a mobile phone... or is there some solution for this? 

sbiddle: Emergency calls with VoIP using a "quality" NZ based VoIP operator should be no different to a Telecom PSTN landline. Dial 111 and you're connected to the operator.

In the UFB world all ONT's / RGW's will be installed with a UPS. This is exactly how existing Telecom Wholesale FTTH installations are done and how FTTH installs are done everywhere in the world. Plan for maybe 8 - 12 hours backup before your connection goes down.

Like the PSTN now the weakest link is cordless phone that many people rely on that has no power to operate. It was an issue that many people in Chch discovered after the earthquakes when the PSTN was up and running but because of no power people couldn't make calls.


So I think you are saying with naked dsl + voip there is no inbuilt provision for emergency dialing in the case of power loss - the end user needs to supply a small UPS of some kind to mitigate power loss.

With fibre based Ultra Fast Broadband services you are saying the telco provides a small local UPS good for about 8-12 hours.

My pick for the cases above would be one with a solar charge adaptor I think.

With cordless phones civil defense needs to add 'have a corded phone' to the emergency kit if it is not there already.




Energy saving and monitoring devices available in NZ: www.energymonitor.org.nz

Create new topic

gzt



4671 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 263


  Reply # 493430 14-Jul-2011 16:46 Send private message

I also wonder what happens on the ISP side in a situation where power is lost.

My feeling is it would take a lot more UPS / generator capacity to have an ISP running without mains power compared to a PSTN exchange serving the same number of customers.

Is there any isp equipment segregation to maintain emergency services at a lower power requirement in those circumstances or is it just not an option with current architecture?

629 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 70


  Reply # 493432 14-Jul-2011 16:53 Send private message

gzt: So I think you are saying with naked dsl + voip there is no inbuilt provision for emergency dialing in the case of power loss - the end user needs to supply a small UPS of some kind to mitigate power loss.

With fibre based Ultra Fast Broadband services you are saying the telco provides a small local UPS good for about 8-12 hours.


Essentially correct.

My understanding, is that the 111 provisions for VoIP in NZ are similar to those of the E911 service in the USA, the VoIP providers have to agree to make available the information such as: Account Holder, Address, non Blocked Caller ID to the Emergency Services call centres during a call, otherwise they have to declare the service non-fit for 111 and list disclaimers everywhere.

In addition, devices (Linksys ATA devices for instance) that don't have a battery backup have to have further notices that declare that the device, and any other devices (modems & powered/cordless phones) connected to it, have to have backup power, otherwise it can't be relied upon to make emergency calls.

With the FTTH/NBN builds, the termination devices etc, generally have provision for battery backup which may/may not be provided in the install (NBN in Australia apparently is, not sure about NZ but I know an old Chorus brochure reiterated the importance).

gzt: I also wonder what happens on the ISP side in a situation where power is lost.

My feeling is it would take a lot more UPS / generator capacity to have an ISP running without mains power compared to a PSTN exchange serving the same number of customers.

Is there any isp equipment segregation to maintain emergency services at a lower power requirement in those circumstances or is it just not an option with current architecture?


I think it depends if the Government remembers to update the Lifeline Utility definitions of the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002

That said, based on Christchurch I think for instance the DSLAMs are included in the UPS provisions for other Telecom equipment (can someone else confirm this?)

1631 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 71

Trusted

  Reply # 500243 1-Aug-2011 11:20 Send private message

gzt: I also wonder what happens on the ISP side in a situation where power is lost.

My feeling is it would take a lot more UPS / generator capacity to have an ISP running without mains power compared to a PSTN exchange serving the same number of customers.

Is there any isp equipment segregation to maintain emergency services at a lower power requirement in those circumstances or is it just not an option with current architecture?

ISPs generally see both their core networks and VoIP switches as critical, so will devote substantial backup capacity to them. Whether it takes more power to run an ISP is probably less relevant than whether an ISP or smaller telco (they are not so different anymore) can afford the level of redundancy and fuel storage that would be installed in a major phone exchange.

Another problem is that with VoIP, you have several nodes between you and the VoIP service that previously were not seen as critical. This includes your own modem, any VoIP ATA you have, and the login systems at both Telecom and your ISP, so there are more things to go wrong. There is also the temptation to plug in more than just your modem and ATA once you install a UPS, so the several hours of backup can easily be shortened by your own decision to backup extra devices on your home connection. I believe the ONT in a fibre network should have its own backup to prevent this, but may not always be the case.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

267 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 9


  Reply # 500268 1-Aug-2011 12:18 Send private message

My Xnet FTTH setup, the ONT is battery-backed, but the WRP400 router is not, and I don't have a UPS for it.

So if the power goes out, I could use the Internet with a laptop (connect to the ONT directly instead of the WRP400, and connect via PPPoE), but the phones wouldn't work, as they need the WRP400.

Basically have to ensure my mobile phone is always charged. Luckily I have good coverage where I am...




Making a game called Tallowmere.

224 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 6


  Reply # 500274 1-Aug-2011 12:24 Send private message

As an aside, on 22 Feb I was in Christchurch trying to contact family after what we all know happened - Telecom landline couldn't connect or just kept ringing forever, Vodafone cell was congested and call couldn't proceed, 2Degrees cell was roaming on Vodafone tower so had similar issues, however Xnet's VFX could get through fine. Oddly, in this case, VOIP was the winner on the day in an emergency situation...

1631 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 71

Trusted

  Reply # 501360 3-Aug-2011 14:16 Send private message

minigopher17: As an aside, on 22 Feb I was in Christchurch trying to contact family after what we all know happened - Telecom landline couldn't connect or just kept ringing forever, Vodafone cell was congested and call couldn't proceed, 2Degrees cell was roaming on Vodafone tower so had similar issues, however Xnet's VFX could get through fine. Oddly, in this case, VOIP was the winner on the day in an emergency situation...


VoIP does have that advantage in an emergency, traffic can be re-routed and you can connect through an alternative network if yours goes down. But it all stops without power, so still need a UPS just to run your router and ATA (eg your home gateway). Small one like this is enough.

http://www.computerstore.co.nz/BK350EI.aspx 
http://www.itexpress.co.nz/product/i/2-1000196/n/BACK-UPS+CS+350+USB+SERIAL.html 

Plus some IEC-to-AS power cords if your routers power supply needs adapter.

http://www.computerstore.co.nz/C-POWERUPS.aspx
http://www.itexpress.co.nz/product/i/2-1075649/n/C-POWERUPS+IEC+to+3-Pin+Mains+Cable.html




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

Create new topic




Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





Trending now »

Hot discussions in our forums right now:

Netflix officialy launching in NZ in March
Created by jarj, last reply by tdgeek on 21-Nov-2014 19:08 (97 replies)
Pages... 5 6 7


Gull Employment Dispute.
Created by networkn, last reply by richms on 23-Nov-2014 23:05 (71 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


Which one is right for me? M8, Z3, S5 or other?
Created by makiomoto, last reply by makiomoto on 20-Nov-2014 13:52 (40 replies)
Pages... 2 3


Free 1gb data with $19 combo until end of Jan 2015 (1.5gb total)
Created by eXDee, last reply by Shoes2468 on 23-Nov-2014 23:01 (16 replies)
Pages... 2


Slingshot line speed
Created by Frankiej45, last reply by Frankiej45 on 20-Nov-2014 14:38 (14 replies)

Little Wins labour Leadership
Created by MikeAqua, last reply by Aredwood on 21-Nov-2014 18:47 (53 replies)
Pages... 2 3 4


Orcon: Why did you cancel my email account without telling me??
Created by old3eyes, last reply by old3eyes on 21-Nov-2014 17:03 (13 replies)

My connection is too fast
Created by ckc, last reply by Geektastic on 20-Nov-2014 11:30 (25 replies)
Pages... 2



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.