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1599 posts

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  Reply # 590739 5-Mar-2012 15:11 Send private message

featherball:
codyc1515: LOL, landline phone here is $40 NZD.

Is it possible to get uncapped 10Mbit/s symmetric and uncapped traffic for $90 NZD?
If so, I'm very interested, since I'm planning to move to NZ soon.

Doubt it, the only affordable "unlimited" provider is Slingshot. Read around...

5 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 590764 5-Mar-2012 15:41 Send private message

codyc1515: Doubt it, the only affordable "unlimited" provider is Slingshot. Read around...

Yeah, that was sarcasm - I just kept proportion ratio b/w landline costs and interpolated my current isp expenses.
Anyway thanks for the advice! I already did some research in this regard.
Actually, I stumbled across this thread while doing so.
I was really surprised to find out someone still uses dialup, ADSL and pays for traffic in 21th century.
In a wild country like Ukraine the only ones who charge for data traffic are mobile phone operators.
And I guess it is only because this is highly monopolized area protected by mafia/government.

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  Reply # 591106 6-Mar-2012 10:46 Send private message

frizianz: CG NAT is the reason we need IPv6. I just hope they dont alocate the IP addresses stupidly this time.

Seriously why does CPIT need a /16? Just like why does IBM need a /8? 


I have 15 quintillion IPv6 addresses.  Does that count as stupidly allocated?

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  Reply # 591110 6-Mar-2012 10:52 Send private message

Two years ago local Cable TV companies started getting rid of old coaxial cable stuff and replace it with cheaper and more reliable fiber hw.
They used to set a shared ethernet switch + fiber converter on per house basis and wire users with 100Mb/s UTP.
Major use for this network is to stream old cable channels via IPTV.
As a bonus they provide internet services. I've got public IP with uncapped 10Mb/s slice for $9/month for two years now.
I can download/upload 1MB/s on 24/7 basis. Pings are <10ms for all UA-IX backbone sites and 60ms for all over the Europe.
No other payments required. Uncapped symmetrical 100Mb/s slice of fiber costs $25/month.


I lived for a period of time (for work) in Chisinau (in Moldova) and was well impressed with the internet which was provided to buildings by fibre and distributed via UTP to apartments, cheap and fast, only downside............ it was in Moldova which has the reputation for the highest level of body part smuggling in the western world, and under -20deg for a half of the year.

Cyril

59 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 591594 7-Mar-2012 11:04 Send private message

Orcon has released its UFB prices.

$75/mo for 30/10mbps, 30GB cap
$89/mo for 30/10mbps, 60GB cap
$99/mo for 30/10mbps, 100GB cap
$199/mo for 30/10mbps, 1000GB cap

$110/mo for 100/?mbps, 30GB cap

Scott Bartlett helpfully points out that these are the same prices/GB as ADSL.

You would get to download at full speed for all of 40 minutes on your $110 100mbps plan. Laughable IMO.

4773 posts

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  Reply # 591598 7-Mar-2012 11:10 Send private message

allio: Orcon has released its UFB prices.

$75/mo for 30/10mbps, 30GB cap
$89/mo for 30/10mbps, 60GB cap
$99/mo for 30/10mbps, 100GB cap
$199/mo for 30/10mbps, 1000GB cap

$110/mo for 100/?mbps, 30GB cap

Scott Bartlett helpfully points out that these are the same prices/GB as ADSL.

Laughable IMO.


actually, apart from the entry level, they are cheaper than ADSL, e.g. 60GB Fibre is $89, but 60GB ADSL genius is $110 - that is significantly cheaper

and you can't even get bigger than a 300GB plan with Genius ADSL (300GB costs $320),  you can get 1TB with genius fibre and it is only $199

why is this laughable? virtually every other country has a Fibre at a price premium to ADSL.  Orcon makes it cheaper for all but the entry level (ands I would suggest that if you only use 30GB or less then you probably don't care much about fibre anyway)

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  Reply # 591603 7-Mar-2012 11:16 Send private message

It's a good entry price and high end price (1tb) but the middle is a little meh, Still it's nice to see them announcing as others are yet to say anything




All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 


59 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 591608 7-Mar-2012 11:22 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:

actually, apart from the entry level, they are cheaper than ADSL, e.g. 60GB Fibre is $89, but 60GB ADSL genius is $110 - that is significantly cheaper

and you can't even get bigger than a 300GB plan with Genius ADSL (300GB costs $320),  you can get 1TB with genius fibre and it is only $199

why is this laughable? virtually every other country has a Fibre at a price premium to ADSL.  Orcon makes it cheaper for all but the entry level (ands I would suggest that if you only use 30GB or less then you probably don't care much about fibre anyway)


It's laughable because this "next generation" broadband doesn't enable any new behaviour or technology at all. Data caps have been the choke on NZ broadband since ADSL2+ came out many years ago, and this enormous, multi-billion dollar investment has apparantly done very little to address the problem.

Yes, fibre is usually at a price premium in other countries, but it comes with unlimited (or near-unlimited) usage. I can't find another example of a "next generation" fibre-to-the-premises plan with such a paltry data cap anywhere in the world, can you?

I have 10mbit ADSL with a 50GB cap and I'm already hesitant to load large websites or watch too many Youtube videos. Sure these prices are a small, incremental step forward, but was it really unreasonable of me to expect more of a leap?

1599 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 591631 7-Mar-2012 11:54 Send private message

allio:
NonprayingMantis:

actually, apart from the entry level, they are cheaper than ADSL, e.g. 60GB Fibre is $89, but 60GB ADSL genius is $110 - that is significantly cheaper

and you can't even get bigger than a 300GB plan with Genius ADSL (300GB costs $320),  you can get 1TB with genius fibre and it is only $199

why is this laughable? virtually every other country has a Fibre at a price premium to ADSL.  Orcon makes it cheaper for all but the entry level (ands I would suggest that if you only use 30GB or less then you probably don't care much about fibre anyway)


It's laughable because this "next generation" broadband doesn't enable any new behaviour or technology at all. Data caps have been the choke on NZ broadband since ADSL2+ came out many years ago, and this enormous, multi-billion dollar investment has apparantly done very little to address the problem.

Yes, fibre is usually at a price premium in other countries, but it comes with unlimited (or near-unlimited) usage. I can't find another example of a "next generation" fibre-to-the-premises plan with such a paltry data cap anywhere in the world, can you?

I have 10mbit ADSL with a 50GB cap and I'm already hesitant to load large websites or watch too many Youtube videos. Sure these prices are a small, incremental step forward, but was it really unreasonable of me to expect more of a leap?

Unfortunately I think I will have to side with Orcon on this one, as much as I do not want to. 100Mbps is approx. 10* faster than you have right now and they need a way to effectively manage this bandwidth. Caps are, for the moment, the solution to that. I'd say when Pacific Fibre comes this will be revised.

4773 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 534


  Reply # 591634 7-Mar-2012 11:54 Send private message

allio:
NonprayingMantis:

actually, apart from the entry level, they are cheaper than ADSL, e.g. 60GB Fibre is $89, but 60GB ADSL genius is $110 - that is significantly cheaper

and you can't even get bigger than a 300GB plan with Genius ADSL (300GB costs $320),  you can get 1TB with genius fibre and it is only $199

why is this laughable? virtually every other country has a Fibre at a price premium to ADSL.  Orcon makes it cheaper for all but the entry level (ands I would suggest that if you only use 30GB or less then you probably don't care much about fibre anyway)


It's laughable because this "next generation" broadband doesn't enable any new behaviour or technology at all. Data caps have been the choke on NZ broadband since ADSL2+ came out many years ago, and this enormous, multi-billion dollar investment has apparantly done very little to address the problem.

Yes, fibre is usually at a price premium in other countries, but it comes with unlimited (or near-unlimited) usage. I can't find another example of a "next generation" fibre-to-the-premises plan with such a paltry data cap anywhere in the world, can you?



I'm guessing you didn't look very hard because I found one in the very first country I checked and with thevery first provider

http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html

40GB (20 peak, 20 offpeak) for $55AU (excluding phoneline of $10AU) on iinet's NBN closest (but a bit worse) 30Mbps/10Mbps we have.

Telstra offers $80 (includuing phoneline) for a measly 5GB on their 25Mbps service as their entry level NBN plan.
http://www.telstra.com.au/bigpond-internet/national-broadband-network/our-plans/

If you include all 'next gen' broadband (i.e. VDSL) then you find that BT (in the UK) offer 40GB as their 'entry level' broadband plan on infinity (up to 40Mbps)
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayTopic.do?topicId=25633

bit cheaper of course, (29GBP including mandatory landline equates to roughly 60NZD) but then they don't have tp pay $37.50 direct to the network owner for each and every customer each and every month.

59 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 591651 7-Mar-2012 12:19 Send private message

codyc1515:Unfortunately I think I will have to side with Orcon on this one, as much as I do not want to. 100Mbps is approx. 10* faster than you have right now and they need a way to effectively manage this bandwidth. Caps are, for the moment, the solution to that. I'd say when Pacific Fibre comes this will be revised.


I agree with you. To me, this is the problem. For years we've been hearing that the means of transmission to our homes (copper wiring) was the reason for our slow speeds, and that we'd have to wait for the new system (fibre) to resolve it once and for all. Now the covers have been pulled off, and the ugly truth is revealed: ADSL was never the problem. New Zealand ISPs don't have the infrastructure to provide any significant amounts of bandwidth, no matter what technology actually brings it into our homes, and the phone lines were just a scapegoat all this time.

Yes, the new plans are going to be 30mbps instead of 12-20 - a welcome upgrade, to be sure, but not a very noticeable one. For the "average consumer" that these plans seem to target, ADSL2+ is already fast enough. Higher speeds are of little to no benefit without correspondingly higher data caps to enable new applications. I wouldn't feel comfortable using something like Netflix on Orcon without paying $200 a month!

As it stands, what on earth is the point of that 100mbit plan? Who is the consumer for whom 30mbps isn't enough, but 30GB/month of data is?

If a lack of international capacity has been the problem all along, why are we spending billions on fibre-to-the-premises before sorting THAT out?

I honestly don't want to be a whinger. I was just really excited about NZ internet finally getting its quantum leap forward, and just can't help but be disappointed to learn that when I finally get fibre connected at my house (years off, most likely) I have nothing but the same old low data caps to look forward to.

1599 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 591654 7-Mar-2012 12:24 Send private message

allio:
codyc1515:Unfortunately I think I will have to side with Orcon on this one, as much as I do not want to. 100Mbps is approx. 10* faster than you have right now and they need a way to effectively manage this bandwidth. Caps are, for the moment, the solution to that. I'd say when Pacific Fibre comes this will be revised.


I honestly don't want to be a whinger. I was just really excited about NZ internet finally getting its quantum leap forward, and just can't help but be disappointed to learn that when I finally get fibre connected at my house (years off, most likely) I have nothing but the same old low data caps to look forward to.

I'd say by then quite a fair bit will have changed. 

59 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 591662 7-Mar-2012 12:31 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
I'm guessing you didn't look very hard because I found one in the very first country I checked and with thevery first provider

http://www.iinet.net.au/nbn/nbn-plan-residential.html

40GB (20 peak, 20 offpeak) for $55AU (excluding phoneline of $10AU) on iinet's NBN closest (but a bit worse) 30Mbps/10Mbps we have.


Right, but you forgot to mention the 1000GB you get for $84.95. If Orcon was offering something in the same universe as that, I wouldn't be in this thread complaining, I'd be out on the street with a bottle of bubbles!

NonprayingMantis:
Telstra offers $80 (includuing phoneline) for a measly 5GB on their 25Mbps service as their entry level NBN plan.
http://www.telstra.com.au/bigpond-internet/national-broadband-network/our-plans/


Good find (that is pretty appalling) but again, you forget to mention that for just ten dollars more you get 200GB....

codyc1515:
I'd say by then quite a fair bit will have changed. 


I hope so mate :)

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  Reply # 591681 7-Mar-2012 12:49 Send private message

allio: 

I agree with you. To me, this is the problem. For years we've been hearing that the means of transmission to our homes (copper wiring) was the reason for our slow speeds, and that we'd have to wait for the new system (fibre) to resolve it once and for all. Now the covers have been pulled off, and the ugly truth is revealed: ADSL was never the problem. New Zealand ISPs don't have the infrastructure to provide any significant amounts of bandwidth, no matter what technology actually brings it into our homes, and the phone lines were just a scapegoat all this time.

Yes, the new plans are going to be 30mbps instead of 12-20 - a welcome upgrade, to be sure, but not a very noticeable one. For the "average consumer" that these plans seem to target, ADSL2+ is already fast enough. Higher speeds are of little to no benefit without correspondingly higher data caps to enable new applications. I wouldn't feel comfortable using something like Netflix on Orcon without paying $200 a month!

As it stands, what on earth is the point of that 100mbit plan? Who is the consumer for whom 30mbps isn't enough, but 30GB/month of data is?

If a lack of international capacity has been the problem all along, why are we spending billions on fibre-to-the-premises before sorting THAT out?

I honestly don't want to be a whinger. I was just really excited about NZ internet finally getting its quantum leap forward, and just can't help but be disappointed to learn that when I finally get fibre connected at my house (years off, most likely) I have nothing but the same old low data caps to look forward to.


Honestly mate, there are a number of issues in what your stating. The original issue with data caps was because of an artifical restriction that was placed on old BUBA wholesale services of 45kbps per user or something crazy like that for handover. That was kind of fixed with the new ADSL2+/VDSL2 or EUBA ethernet service which didn't have that restriction (although Telecom/Chorus hasn't ruled it out). From that perspective, an ISP should be able to offer much cheaper data over those connections however it would be hard to know if say one street had BUBA and the next EUBA to have such different pricing.

The issue for UFB is that the ISPs have to pay for CIR on the connections so a 1TB capped connection would need a 5mbps CIR which pushes up the connection price. Then, if the ISP has to pay for national backhaul e.g. Invercargill to Auckland thats the next bit and then if its international or to non peerers like Telecom/Telstra that's the next bit. The key for UFB will be to have content like Akamai and web caches in each region which can be freely accessed so data doesn't have to go through expensive backhaul/interconnection.

Also remember the point of UFB isn't just downloading movies faster but offering better schooling e.g. cloud learning services, medical e.g. send an Xray in 2 secs or stream data straight to the specialist center etc. 





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  Reply # 591682 7-Mar-2012 12:51 Send private message

Given that UFB will still be years away for many (most?) people - what're odds of it helping to push the existing DSL prices down? Or is saturation so small that DSL providers aren't likely to care at this stage?




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