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  Reply # 547644 21-Nov-2011 01:19 Send private message

tardtasticx: I think its a great idea. The youth market needs something like this, but I'm not sure it will really take off. A lot of the people at my school are running on Vodafone, with Vodafone brought handsets, so the bands wont be suited to Telecoms WCDMA network, which means many will need new phones, which many cannot afford. They need to have 2G services I reckon for this to really take off.

We teens like being able to try something out, and if it doesn't work/suit our needs, we want to be able to leave and go back to where we were prior, which isnt really possible on two almost entirely different networks.

This, I believe, is exactly the reason why the phones will need to be cheap aka. subsidized and locked. Take, for example, the cheap Telecom-branded ZTE phones, they tend to retail for around $100 or so. Add in the lock and subsidy and I imagine they could probably go for about half that, maybe less? Although, like I've said, the only reason that I can justifiably see for locking a phone is to make sure that it stays on the network (which is the whole idea I guess) and to in turn make money off of the virtual monopoly you will have over peoples phones (potentially anti-competitive, in my view).

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  Reply # 547645 21-Nov-2011 01:38 Send private message

codyc1515:
tardtasticx: I think its a great idea. The youth market needs something like this, but I'm not sure it will really take off. A lot of the people at my school are running on Vodafone, with Vodafone brought handsets, so the bands wont be suited to Telecoms WCDMA network, which means many will need new phones, which many cannot afford. They need to have 2G services I reckon for this to really take off.

We teens like being able to try something out, and if it doesn't work/suit our needs, we want to be able to leave and go back to where we were prior, which isnt really possible on two almost entirely different networks.

This, I believe, is exactly the reason why the phones will need to be cheap aka. subsidized and locked. Take, for example, the cheap Telecom-branded ZTE phones, they tend to retail for around $100 or so. Add in the lock and subsidy and I imagine they could probably go for about half that, maybe less? Although, like I've said, the only reason that I can justifiably see for locking a phone is to make sure that it stays on the network (which is the whole idea I guess) and to in turn make money off of the virtual monopoly you will have over peoples phones (potentially anti-competitive, in my view).


Thats the way they'd go I would imagine. Since locking handsets is somewhat frowned uppon/un-heard of in NZ, it would help keep it exclusive to the teen market as I imagine many would not be aware of what Network locking actually is. where as older folk would and maybe would tend to stay away.





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  Reply # 547656 21-Nov-2011 08:03 Send private message

codyc1515:
Thats why we need a global blacklist. Oh wait, that already exists (http://www.gsmworld.com/our-work/programmes-and-initiatives/fraud-and-security/imei_database.htm).


Except that it's not really global either. At best, pan-European.




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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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  Reply # 547677 21-Nov-2011 09:04 Send private message

codyc1515:
Regs:
codyc1515:
Regs:
codyc1515:
Regs: 
some i know has a cdma handset- they've probably not made a call on it for 1 year or more, they can choose from 3 XT handsets starting at $29... 

Those we're on contract prices if I'm not mistaken, if thats the case then the contract is the lock. There is no need to lock the phone.

nope.  the person  i know has no contract whatsoever.  their mobile bills to their home phone account *if* they use it, which they more or less dont. 

No, I meant to get the phone that cheap you have to sign onto a contract.

no, no contract.  

Are you sure? We got a similar one the other day and I'm quite sure it did require a contract of some kind.

Regs is correct. Telecom offered Fixed line customers (simple Kyocera) CDMA handsets (many years back) that are effectively on-account but pay-as-you-go. ie: You only get billed when you use the device, and the bill goes to your home phone line account.

I suspect there are still quite a number of these handsets out there, and counted as being on the Telecom customer base. But the older folk I know who have them 'for-emergencies' have never, or rarely, used them. They would, or have,  only turned them on to use.... texting and data use, don't mean much to these folk.

Skinny customers???????    

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  Reply # 547746 21-Nov-2011 10:35 Send private message

oxnsox:
codyc1515:
Regs:
codyc1515:
Regs:
codyc1515:
Regs: 
some i know has a cdma handset- they've probably not made a call on it for 1 year or more, they can choose from 3 XT handsets starting at $29... 

Those we're on contract prices if I'm not mistaken, if thats the case then the contract is the lock. There is no need to lock the phone.

nope.  the person  i know has no contract whatsoever.  their mobile bills to their home phone account *if* they use it, which they more or less dont. 

No, I meant to get the phone that cheap you have to sign onto a contract.

no, no contract.  

Are you sure? We got a similar one the other day and I'm quite sure it did require a contract of some kind.

Regs is correct. Telecom offered Fixed line customers (simple Kyocera) CDMA handsets (many years back) that are effectively on-account but pay-as-you-go. ie: You only get billed when you use the device, and the bill goes to your home phone line account.

I suspect there are still quite a number of these handsets out there, and counted as being on the Telecom customer base. But the older folk I know who have them 'for-emergencies' have never, or rarely, used them. They would, or have,  only turned them on to use.... texting and data use, don't mean much to these folk.

Skinny customers???????    

OK, just had a look at the one that they sent us and it was a 24 month contract to get 1 of 3 phones for free.

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  Reply # 555973 9-Dec-2011 15:54 Send private message

@sbiddle from other thread

Say VF, 2d and Telecom's lowest plan cost or phone price due to contract subsidy is X. So currently they are all equal and competing against one another.

If Skinny's SIM locking enables them to offer a plan at X - 10% or a phone at X - 5%, they are getting an unfair advantage by locking customers to their network. Something which has been frowned upon by the CC before

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  Reply # 555980 9-Dec-2011 16:15 Send private message

P1n3apqlExpr3ss: @sbiddle from other thread

Say VF, 2d and Telecom's lowest plan cost or phone price due to contract subsidy is X. So currently they are all equal and competing against one another.

If Skinny's SIM locking enables them to offer a plan at X - 10% or a phone at X - 5%, they are getting an unfair advantage by locking customers to their network. Something which has been frowned upon by the CC before


So quite clearly all phone subsidies need to be canned? You can't argue that subsidies can't occur with prepay, but can exist with on account.


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  Reply # 555982 9-Dec-2011 16:15 Send private message

P1n3apqlExpr3ss: @sbiddle from other thread

Say VF, 2d and Telecom's lowest plan cost or phone price due to contract subsidy is X. So currently they are all equal and competing against one another.

If Skinny's SIM locking enables them to offer a plan at X - 10% or a phone at X - 5%, they are getting an unfair advantage by locking customers to their network. Something which has been frowned upon by the CC before


So let's translate that to post-paid terminology and read that back to you:

"If 'X Telco's fixed term contract enables them to offer a plan at X-10% or a phone at X-5% then they are getting an unfair advantage by using fixed term contacts to lock cusotmers into their network".

It's the same thing.
It's called competition, not anti-competition.




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  Reply # 555984 9-Dec-2011 16:20 Send private message

How is this anti competitive? You only have to look at overseas markets, where it is rare for handsets not to be unlocked to see plenty of competition.

Customers want phones for cheap/free, this is one (of many) ways of doing this. If this doesn't appeal, then look at the myriad of other options open to you.

ajw

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  Reply # 555992 9-Dec-2011 16:50 Send private message

Why does Telecom have to launch a sub brand. Seems to me that with all providers not locking handsets their is plenty of competition. Perhaps Telecom should have a long hard look at their pricing that is why they are losing customers to 2 degrees.

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  Reply # 555995 9-Dec-2011 16:54 Send private message

P1n3apqlExpr3ss: @sbiddle from other thread

Say VF, 2d and Telecom's lowest plan cost or phone price due to contract subsidy is X. So currently they are all equal and competing against one another.

If Skinny's SIM locking enables them to offer a plan at X - 10% or a phone at X - 5%, they are getting an unfair advantage by locking customers to their network. Something which has been frowned upon by the CC before


luckily that can't happen.
Since all the players offer $0 cost phones due to contract, so unless Skinny start paying people to take phones then they won't be offering them any cheaper than the others already do with subsidy.

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  Reply # 555996 9-Dec-2011 17:09 Send private message

ajw: Why does Telecom have to launch a sub brand. Seems to me that with all providers not locking handsets their is plenty of competition. Perhaps Telecom should have a long hard look at their pricing that is why they are losing customers to 2 degrees.


This was discussed a few pages back and it comes down to market. XT is a premium brand with different services.




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  Reply # 556002 9-Dec-2011 17:21 Send private message

Hmmm, I dont think you guys get my point? Or maybe my thinking is flawed...

Say 2d, VF, XT and Skinny (without sim locks) can offer me a Galaxy S2 for $500 on a 24 month $50/month (lets say 2000 texts, 200mins, 1GB data) contract. At this stage they are all equal and will likely use advertising and brand loyalty to compete, no?

Then Skinny introduces sim locks and as a result of this induced economic benefit they can offer me the same plan except for $400 upfront and $45/month. This would give them an unfair advantage?

If my reasoning is flawed feel free to point out where I've gone wrong

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  Reply # 556003 9-Dec-2011 17:23 Send private message

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10772125

Man telecom make 2 steps forward and 2 steps backward, this kinda stuff is just lame.

Seems that the core of Telecom has the bad old attitude from days of old. Pity really, they are making grounds in so many ways that are encouraging.


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  Reply # 556005 9-Dec-2011 17:34 Send private message

networkn: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10772125

Man telecom make 2 steps forward and 2 steps backward, this kinda stuff is just lame.

Seems that the core of Telecom has the bad old attitude from days of old. Pity really, they are making grounds in so many ways that are encouraging.



Why? If you want Premium they offer XT if you want cheap they offer Skinny. You have a choice. And if you do not like the options there are other providers.




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