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5232 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 765


  Reply # 621599 8-May-2012 12:55 Send private message

Behodar: Well, I signed up, my connection was provisioned about 30 minutes ago... and I'm stuck at work and can't try it yet :(


that is incredibly fast. did you switch from Maxnet?

836 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 59

Trusted

  Reply # 621603 8-May-2012 12:57 Send private message

Just for reference using a VPN in New Zealand is not illegal and neither is accessing sites like Netflix or Hulu using one same as using Fyx wouldn't be at the end of the day it's the end user that is the one breaking the laws where applicable.

Breaking a websites ToS's is not breaking the law and the worst any of these places could do would be to suspend or cancel your access to that site.

The argument your using is the exact same as me saying well blah blah isp gives me the internet and I can (because I know how) access pretty much any website I want then that internet provider is breaking the law.

I doubt that any isp would put something out there for us to use if it was not legal. Good on you Fyx let's hope you will live up to your claims. (Too late for me as I've just changed onto a different provider with a 12 month term).

799 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60

UberGroup

  Reply # 621605 8-May-2012 12:57 Send private message

PaulBrislen:
Beccara:
FYX:
Beccara: Talk about painting a giant target on your back, Just because end users with some work can get around geofencing doesn't mean an ISP can offer it as a product and will FYX support the global mode when Hulu/Netflix/whoever figure out how they are doing it and block it?


Hi Beccara,

We are not accessing any content as a product here, just broader access to the internet.  All users (no matter where they are and what ISP they are using) need to be aware of the T&C's of sites they are visiting.


Thats great but if I signed upto this and used it to access netflix and down the line netflix figured out how you are doing your global mode and blocked it would you support it and fix it by finding another way around it?

Because if you dont there's no point to the product, If you get "known" then the content holders will try and stop you one way or another.

I honestly can't believe an idea like this got past management and as other's have stated it's quite ironic when you use the DIA filter


Surely there's a world of difference between objectionable material (aka "child porn") and access to legitimate content that is region locked?

One is a crime of the vilest nature, the other is an issue regarding a business model.

All FYX is doing is providing access to the internet. If we go down the path of demanding our ISPs know what we use the connection for, we'll be holding all ISPs liable for every action of every user. That's not tenable. 

At the end of the day ISPs offer internet access. It's up to the user to obey laws, terms and conditions and EULAs.


As it's been stated the DIA filter is no just kiddie porn anymore, I'm also unaware of any examples of services or websites that use geo blocking and DONT have it in their T&C's about bypassing this thru VPN's or other workaround again but anyone who knows of such a service/site that goesn't do this should say so.

Let's be honest, the point of global mode is to access content in a form of media that NZ isn't allowed to. It's thinly veiled by FYX but this is the point of global mode. If they wont support the global mode when a service/site blocks their little bypass method then it's rather risky move.

Which is a shame, FYX have the right idea with the water/electricity method of billing and that should really be the focus here, It's a shame the service will be tarnished/destroyed by this global mode business because they WILL get nailed at some point by a content holder




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

3847 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 167

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 621606 8-May-2012 12:59 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
Behodar: Well, I signed up, my connection was provisioned about 30 minutes ago... and I'm stuck at work and can't try it yet :(


that is incredibly fast. did you switch from Maxnet?

From TelstraClear.

2453 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 322

Trusted
Microsoft NZ

  Reply # 621607 8-May-2012 12:59 Send private message

mattRSK: It will also be interesting to hear what the NZTechPodcast guys have to say about it tonight.


Cool, I hope Paul got early access to it, to try it out :)

456 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 26


  Reply # 621613 8-May-2012 13:11 Send private message

Beccara: As it's been stated the DIA filter is no just kiddie porn anymore, I'm also unaware of any examples of services or websites that use geo blocking and DONT have it in their T&C's about bypassing this thru VPN's or other workaround again but anyone who knows of such a service/site that goesn't do this should say so.

Let's be honest, the point of global mode is to access content in a form of media that NZ isn't allowed to. It's thinly veiled by FYX but this is the point of global mode. If they wont support the global mode when a service/site blocks their little bypass method then it's rather risky move.

Which is a shame, FYX have the right idea with the water/electricity method of billing and that should really be the focus here, It's a shame the service will be tarnished/destroyed by this global mode business because they WILL get nailed at some point by a content holder


I would imagine they are likely to get sued for facilitating a breach of contract in one way or another but I would hazard a guess that is part of why they are making an entirely new provider for this service rather than directly making it available by the parent company.

T&C's are not Law, They are merely an agreement between a content provider and a customer.

There are already a number of other VPN/Proxy/DNS providers around who provide these similar services, The only difference in this one is that it is an ISP and only applies to specific sites, The other providers don't seem to be vanishing quickly and don't have the backbone of a bigger company behind them so one would assume that they simply get daily Cease and Desist letters.

826 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 295


  Reply # 621614 8-May-2012 13:14 Send private message

As has been stated already - nothing illegal about this.

However, as also stated, there is nothing to stop Hulu/Netflix etc from deciding they don't like this happening and cutting off access.

You are then in the position of having a customer who signed up for a service based on access to a 3rd party provider, who now no longer have access to that service. At the very least this would result in a mightily pissed off customer.

I like the per GB pricing, but I also think that structuring a product offering on access to a 3rd party content provider (and explicitly stating so in your product offerings) without the blessing/endorsement of that content provider is massively risky.

If Netflix/Hulu are aware of it and happy about it great, no issue. Otherwise expect the service to stop working as soon as an appreciable number of customers using them.

456 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 26


  Reply # 621623 8-May-2012 13:21 Send private message

wasabi2k: As has been stated already - nothing illegal about this.

However, as also stated, there is nothing to stop Hulu/Netflix etc from deciding they don't like this happening and cutting off access.

You are then in the position of having a customer who signed up for a service based on access to a 3rd party provider, who now no longer have access to that service. At the very least this would result in a mightily pissed off customer.

I like the per GB pricing, but I also think that structuring a product offering on access to a 3rd party content provider (and explicitly stating so in your product offerings) without the blessing/endorsement of that content provider is massively risky.

If Netflix/Hulu are aware of it and happy about it great, no issue. Otherwise expect the service to stop working as soon as an appreciable number of customers using them.


Judging by how well other providers of similar services (All be it without the ISP component) work I would have to assume that either the Content providers don't bother blocking them or they set themselves up with a large pool of dynamically changing IP addresses preventing themselves from being blocked.

799 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60

UberGroup

  Reply # 621627 8-May-2012 13:22 Send private message

lucky015:
Beccara: As it's been stated the DIA filter is no just kiddie porn anymore, I'm also unaware of any examples of services or websites that use geo blocking and DONT have it in their T&C's about bypassing this thru VPN's or other workaround again but anyone who knows of such a service/site that goesn't do this should say so.

Let's be honest, the point of global mode is to access content in a form of media that NZ isn't allowed to. It's thinly veiled by FYX but this is the point of global mode. If they wont support the global mode when a service/site blocks their little bypass method then it's rather risky move.

Which is a shame, FYX have the right idea with the water/electricity method of billing and that should really be the focus here, It's a shame the service will be tarnished/destroyed by this global mode business because they WILL get nailed at some point by a content holder


I would imagine they are likely to get sued for facilitating a breach of contract in one way or another but I would hazard a guess that is part of why they are making an entirely new provider for this service rather than directly making it available by the parent company.

T&C's are not Law, They are merely an agreement between a content provider and a customer.

There are already a number of other VPN/Proxy/DNS providers around who provide these similar services, The only difference in this one is that it is an ISP and only applies to specific sites, The other providers don't seem to be vanishing quickly and don't have the backbone of a bigger company behind them so one would assume that they simply get daily Cease and Desist letters.


I'm not stating it's illegal in any way under NZ law (IANNA tho) but just because it's legal doesn't make it smart

The difference between FYX and other dns services is the dns services are small and easy to setup. You kill one and 10 pop up. If the content rights holders nail FYX to the wall however the can you can be sure another ISP wouldn't try something as silly as this again in a million years




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

456 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 26


  Reply # 621634 8-May-2012 13:33 Send private message

Beccara:
lucky015:
Beccara: As it's been stated the DIA filter is no just kiddie porn anymore, I'm also unaware of any examples of services or websites that use geo blocking and DONT have it in their T&C's about bypassing this thru VPN's or other workaround again but anyone who knows of such a service/site that goesn't do this should say so.

Let's be honest, the point of global mode is to access content in a form of media that NZ isn't allowed to. It's thinly veiled by FYX but this is the point of global mode. If they wont support the global mode when a service/site blocks their little bypass method then it's rather risky move.

Which is a shame, FYX have the right idea with the water/electricity method of billing and that should really be the focus here, It's a shame the service will be tarnished/destroyed by this global mode business because they WILL get nailed at some point by a content holder


I would imagine they are likely to get sued for facilitating a breach of contract in one way or another but I would hazard a guess that is part of why they are making an entirely new provider for this service rather than directly making it available by the parent company.

T&C's are not Law, They are merely an agreement between a content provider and a customer.

There are already a number of other VPN/Proxy/DNS providers around who provide these similar services, The only difference in this one is that it is an ISP and only applies to specific sites, The other providers don't seem to be vanishing quickly and don't have the backbone of a bigger company behind them so one would assume that they simply get daily Cease and Desist letters.


I'm not stating it's illegal in any way under NZ law (IANNA tho) but just because it's legal doesn't make it smart

The difference between FYX and other dns services is the dns services are small and easy to setup. You kill one and 10 pop up. If the content rights holders nail FYX to the wall however the can you can be sure another ISP wouldn't try something as silly as this again in a million years


It does appear that Fyx is looking to do the same thing but as an ISP, They have the appearance of a small niche ISP, Especially considering they are coming from a parent company that has a relatively small share of the Residential market, It looks like they are aspiring to create Xnet version 2, Similar to how xnet once was very much a Torrent and cheap VOIP ISP (Not entirely sure what it has become now or why) Fyx will be an International Service and cheap Data ISP.

112 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 3


  Reply # 621643 8-May-2012 13:47 Send private message


However, as also stated, there is nothing to stop Hulu/Netflix etc from deciding they don't like this happening and cutting off access.


IMO this is the most likely course of action for Hulu/NetFlix and other providers. Both of these companies have blocked VPN provider's subnets in the past.



150 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 621644 8-May-2012 13:48 Send private message

@FYX

Is there shaping or QOS on your service? Will the quality of service match your
parent company Maxnet?

5232 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 765


  Reply # 621645 8-May-2012 13:53 Send private message

Aside from Netflix etc, would using Fyx also be a handy way to totally avoid getting pinged with a copyright notice?

113 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 621651 8-May-2012 14:04 Send private message

This looks awesome.. Once someone jumps on it could you post a speedtest to kiwi servers & some east coast us ones?

332 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 21


  Reply # 621653 8-May-2012 14:10 Send private message

I think this is a terrible idea. A few points:

1. Maxnet need to make up their mind what they're about. On one hand they encourage censorship by having the DIA filter, and on the other hand they create a business model that appeals MOSTLY do those who want to access stuff they're not allowed to (albeit for different reasons). Their website claims "FYX is an ISP that is all about open access and freedom", yet they know how many people feel about the DIA filter.

2. Saying they're providing a service, not content, is like saying MegaUpload and even the Pirate Bay do nothing wrong because they have the potential to be used legitimately. Look how that's gone down.

3. They're basically ruining it for us geeks. We found ways to access Netlflix undetected. But as soon as people start doing it en mass, it will almost certainly be detected and then they'll make it even harder for us to access them.

This is one bandwagon I won't be jumping on.
Side question: Isn't Maxnet run by some conservative religious group, like the Exclusive Brethren or something? Forgive me and delete this question if I'm wrong.







Toys:  Samsung Galaxy S4 (Telecom), iPad 4, Roku, Apple TV, iPod Touch 4, Dell Inspiron 17R SE, Sony 40CX520, TiVo x2, Snap ADSL.

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