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Topic # 114244 13-Feb-2013 08:24 Send private message

Hi guys,

As the title suggests, I am looking at installing a shade sail to provide some shade for a newly built patio.
The house is brick and tile and based on the shape of the house, it would make sense to have the sail partially attached to the house.

I've done some reading and it would seem that due to the tremendous lateral force applied to the connection points, you have to think really carefully about how you attach your sail.

I was wondering if anyone had any pointers, etc...

The house has brick veneer and I have a feeling that simply attaching a sail to these bricks (even trying to attach to as many as possible using one of these plates) might not cut it...

Alternatively, I might look at getting a company to come and do the job rather than risking to eff it up myself so I would welcome any review/suggestion on these type of companies around Auckland (North Shore)

Thanks heaps,

Guillaume

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  Reply # 761551 13-Feb-2013 09:19 Send private message

Can you attach it to the underside of your eaves, where there should be some solid rafters to work with?



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  Reply # 761553 13-Feb-2013 09:28 Send private message

Hi,

Quite possibly! I am just not sure about how to find these rafters to make sure the hooks (or whatever it is) are secured correctly.

I have a stud finder which I haven't tried but not sure how it would work.



I have attached a picture where you can see how the roof is. Below the gutter, there is some sort of metal casing and I suspect there would be wood behind it but cannot be sure...



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  Reply # 761556 13-Feb-2013 09:32 Send private message

On the underside (i.e. parallel to the ground) there is usually cement board (hardiplank?) which should have flat head nails attaching it to the rafters - these nail heads should indicate the rafters. Wouldnt be surprised if a stud finder wont find them, cement board is quite different to GIB.

I presume by the metal casing you mean the fascia?



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  Reply # 761559 13-Feb-2013 09:35 Send private message

nickb800: On the underside (i.e. parallel to the ground) there is usually cement board (hardiplank?) which should have flat head nails attaching it to the rafters - these nail heads should indicate the rafters. Wouldnt be surprised if a stud finder wont find them, cement board is quite different to GIB.

I presume by the metal casing you mean the fascia?


Good tip about the nails, I'll check that out tonight.
Yeah, it might be called fascia! Sorry, just a major noob in that area and all these words are new to me!

Thanks,

Guillaume

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  Reply # 761568 13-Feb-2013 09:56 Send private message

Haha all good, same here, I had to google it to remember what it was called! The bit under the eaves parallel to the ground is called the soffit apparently.

Rafters will be at a fairly regular spacing - 400-600mm intervals maybe? It might also be possible that the soffit is only nailed into every second rafter but if you figure out the spacing you could measure and mark the rafters that aren't indicated by nail heads.



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  Reply # 761589 13-Feb-2013 10:19 Send private message

nickb800: Haha all good, same here, I had to google it to remember what it was called! The bit under the eaves parallel to the ground is called the soffit apparently.

Rafters will be at a fairly regular spacing - 400-600mm intervals maybe? It might also be possible that the soffit is only nailed into every second rafter but if you figure out the spacing you could measure and mark the rafters that aren't indicated by nail heads.


Ok, so let's say I manage to find the rafter using the nails as a guide.

2 solutions then for the attachments, see pictures 1 and 2:

1:Solution 1

2: Solution 2

Which one would be the best and also, where should it be attached:
- Vertically (through the soffit, just like the nails)
- horizontally (through the fascia)

I'm just thinking that having the force applied perpendicularly to the attachment might not be a good idea so somehow having the attachment fixed vertically doesn't seem right but I could be wrong.

Thanks,

Guillaume

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  Reply # 761592 13-Feb-2013 10:21 Send private message

Being a brick house I would go for dynabolts straight in to the brick work. You can get bolts with eyelets so you could wind a few of them in to the bricks and then just use the normal c-clip (for want of a better term but hopefully you know what I mean) to hang the shade sail.

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  Reply # 761593 13-Feb-2013 10:23 Send private message

Are there any other houses under construction in your area ? f so, have a look and see how the rafters, etc come down to the edge of the house - that would give you a good indication of where the strong and weak points are for possible mount points - you might even strike it lucky and chat with the builder on site.

Last thing you want is your roof or other internal structure being damaged by a gale wind - as you say there is a tremendous amount of force ...




My thoughts are no longer my own and is probably representative of our media-controlled government



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  Reply # 761595 13-Feb-2013 10:27 Send private message

chevrolux: Being a brick house I would go for dynabolts straight in to the brick work. You can get bolts with eyelets so you could wind a few of them in to the bricks and then just use the normal c-clip (for want of a better term but hopefully you know what I mean) to hang the shade sail.


Well, that was my original idea but after researching this a bit more, it would seem that this is the best way to either have the eyelet come loose and let go of your sail (which might then shatter a window, murphy's law, etc..) or rip apart one or more bricks from the wall...

I've even seen pictures...it's not a pretty sight!



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  Reply # 761596 13-Feb-2013 10:29 Send private message

SepticSceptic: Are there any other houses under construction in your area ? f so, have a look and see how the rafters, etc come down to the edge of the house - that would give you a good indication of where the strong and weak points are for possible mount points - you might even strike it lucky and chat with the builder on site.

Last thing you want is your roof or other internal structure being damaged by a gale wind - as you say there is a tremendous amount of force ...


Thanks for the tip. Intuitively I would think the corners would be strong points because they are formed by 3 or more pieces of wood coming together (2 horizontal + 1 diagonally from the roof ) but I will try and check out house under constructions to see if I can confirm that, bearing in mind every house is different and who knows how mine was built!

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  Reply # 761674 13-Feb-2013 12:38 Send private message

gcorgnet:
chevrolux: Being a brick house I would go for dynabolts straight in to the brick work. You can get bolts with eyelets so you could wind a few of them in to the bricks and then just use the normal c-clip (for want of a better term but hopefully you know what I mean) to hang the shade sail.


Well, that was my original idea but after researching this a bit more, it would seem that this is the best way to either have the eyelet come loose and let go of your sail (which might then shatter a window, murphy's law, etc..) or rip apart one or more bricks from the wall...

I've even seen pictures...it's not a pretty sight!


Thats interesting. It would take a hell of a lot of force to pull a dynabolt out. Once they are in thats it!

There will be wood in the front edge of the eaves. But the bolt will have to be pointing down meaning lots the force will be pulling laterally at the bolt and bend it easily. If the bolt went in to the wall the force is pulling vertically on the bolt and it wont bend. If you put the bolt in the mortar between the bricks there will be more stuff for the bolt to pull up on. The middle of your bricks might be empty so I could see the possibility of the bolt pulling out.

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  Reply # 761709 13-Feb-2013 13:23 Send private message

We had a shade sail attached to one of our houses.  The installers had a 6mm steel plate made up for the house connection.  It was in a corner and the plate was then bolted to 2 or 3 rafters that meet at that point.  The other ends were attached to telephone poles buried 3 - 4 metres in the ground.  I remember them saying that they had seen rafters pulled off a house because the sail was attached incorrectly.  The shade sails have a alot of force applied when it is windy.  We have a different one currently that is attached to 4 120mm steel poles.  Once it hailed and the weight on the sail bowed the poles.  They went back in to shape was I got the melted hail off the sail.  You are meant to take the sails down if it is going to hail or snow.  A lot of poles bent out of shape down here last year when it snowed.



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  Reply # 761720 13-Feb-2013 13:35 Send private message

wallop: We had a shade sail attached to one of our houses.  The installers had a 6mm steel plate made up for the house connection.  It was in a corner and the plate was then bolted to 2 or 3 rafters that meet at that point.  The other ends were attached to telephone poles buried 3 - 4 metres in the ground.  I remember them saying that they had seen rafters pulled off a house because the sail was attached incorrectly.  The shade sails have a alot of force applied when it is windy.  We have a different one currently that is attached to 4 120mm steel poles.  Once it hailed and the weight on the sail bowed the poles.  They went back in to shape was I got the melted hail off the sail.  You are meant to take the sails down if it is going to hail or snow.  A lot of poles bent out of shape down here last year when it snowed.


Wow, sounds like these shade sails are evil!

I guess the size would matter as well with bigger sails putting much bigger force, etc..

If you got that professionally installed, was it around Auckland and would you mind sharing the contact?

Thanks,

Guillaume

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  Reply # 761737 13-Feb-2013 13:58 Send private message

I have a Cedar house that i have had a shade sail attached to for about 6-7 years.

I have used the flat-plated eylets from the picture above (Pic 1) and they are marine grade stainless.
I used large marine grade stainless screws to screw directly into the studs on the house and then used the other style of eyelets (Pic 2) ion the posts at the other end.

I have my shade sail strung up very tight and in a fairly windy spot and so far, no issues.

I take it down in winter (more to preserve it than out of fear for the house) and put it back up and tighten it each summer.

I use double-ended hooks with screw-in things (I think they're called stainless turnbuckles) as per the pic below attached to the shade sail itself, so I can tension it as I need to.





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  Reply # 761739 13-Feb-2013 13:59 Send private message

I've ben on the lookout for a shade sail - but more of a weather sail that will give some protection from rain. Most of the shade sails I have seen in the major DIY supermarkets have been the open-weave type shade cloth which will let the rain and drizzle thru .. :-( Guess I'm looking for more of a lightweight cavas style shade cloth.




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