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534 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 767758 22-Feb-2013 16:19 Send private message

Oriphix:
graemeh:
Oriphix: Its only me and wife we have a 3 bedroom house so we have already started on the master bedroom took out all the wall paper (that was a annoying job). So now that I have the windows decided before that I wanted to insulate the walls. But I don't know if you need a permit for it like my post above?


Unfortunately you do require building consent for insulation of outside walls.
Installing thermal insulation in an existing buildingExemption (jg) of Schedule 1

A building consent is not required for the following building work:
  • (jg) the installation of thermal insulation in an existing building other than in-   
    • (i) an external wall of the building; or
    • (ii) an internal wall of the building that is a fire separation wall (also known as a firewall).
GuidanceThis exemption does not cover installation of thermal insulation in an external wall of a building, this may have weathertightness implications. Installing insulation in internal walls that provide fire separation is also not covered, as the installation could adversely affect the fire safety properties of the building.
Examples where this exemption could applyExamples where the work is not exempt and a building consent is requiredA house is being retrofitted with polystyrene insulation under the floor and fibreglass insulation to the ceiling.The external walls of a house are to be injected with expanding insulating foam.An existing apartment building is being retrofitted with fibreglass insulation to the internal, non-fire-rated walls for additional noise control.A fire-rated tenancy wall to an apartment is to be retrofitted with thermal insulation.
Info from: http://www.dbh.govt.nz/bc-no-consent-schedule-1#installing-thermal




This is where I get really confused. I don't want to insulate the external wall. But I want to insulate the internal wall that is external facing. Is that what they mean by the external wall?


Yes, it means an outside wall as opposed to an internal wall (eg a corridor wall). Funnily enough, I insulated some walls of my house last year by taking the weatherboards off, insulating and putting on ply and a rainscreen and reinstating the weatherboards. When I rang the council they had a conflab and came back to say I didn't need a permit so it's all with the gods. The reason external walls are singled out is because of weathertightness issues and, to a lesser extent, iinternal moisture.

With the brick veneer house above it's important to retain an air gap by the wall so that the brick, which can absorb a lot of water, is able to dry and not transfer the moisture through.



283 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 768288 23-Feb-2013 20:35 Send private message

So I had a guy come from kiwi double glazing today. http://www.kiwidoubleglazing.co.nz/

He took some measurements and will give me a quote.

They do Aluminium windows so the middle has a hard plastic that separates the cold from the outside getting inside. They also do some extra things to the windows for noise and heat etc. Which surprising I didn't get any information from the PVC people so I sent a inquiry in.

Will be interesting to see how the quote measures up for the PVC pricing I got.










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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 768388 24-Feb-2013 08:15 Send private message

Try www.thermalframe.co.nz I found their service excellent




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218 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 768399 24-Feb-2013 09:02 Send private message

I'd be surprised if you ever see any condensation on the PVC windows in the NZ weather temps/climate range. Perhaps it is possible....but I only ever saw traces of it on our PVC windows when it got down to -30C to -35C.

Will they ever start using (or maybe they do now?) vapor barriers in NZ house construction?


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  Reply # 768411 24-Feb-2013 09:54 Send private message

NZ's pretty behind the times when it comes to building and insulation.




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367 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 768719 25-Feb-2013 09:01 Send private message

Over the last year we have been fitting double-glazed PVC windows.  The only condensation we have had on them is on the outside.  This can happen in the right weather conditions when the units are working really well.  Ours are argon + low-e.

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  Reply # 768721 25-Feb-2013 09:03 Send private message

In Fiji the condensation can be on the outside - heaps of it! That's because it's cool and dry air conditioned rooms and warm and wet outside.

I've had a tiny bit of condensation on my bathroom PVC window on super cold mornings, but that's because it's not far from a high flow shower, separated by a glass cubicle that goes up a couple of meters to the 3m ceiling.




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283 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 768722 25-Feb-2013 09:05 Send private message

wallop: Over the last year we have been fitting double-glazed PVC windows.  The only condensation we have had on them is on the outside.  This can happen in the right weather conditions when the units are working really well.  Ours are argon + low-e.


Where did you get your PVC windows from? Since I am shopping around I would like to get a quote. Thanks.







534 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 768727 25-Feb-2013 09:17 Send private message

stuzzo:
Azzura: I'd be surprised if you ever see any condensation on the PVC windows in the NZ weather temps/climate range. Perhaps it is possible....but I only ever saw traces of it on our PVC windows when it got down to -30C to -35C.

Will they ever start using (or maybe they do now?) vapor barriers in NZ house construction?




You will get condensation on the outside of insulated windows, of course, as the surfaces can be cold enough for condensation to form.

The poly barrier shown in the photo is now not considered good practice world-wide. Where separate barriers are used at all, the trend is towards products such as Intello which is an air barrier on the room side of the wall but permeable for moisture to be released from inside the wall.

Moisture is carried by airflow to a much greater extent than by diffusion through a surface such as gib, so the most important thing is to create a good air seal, not a vapour barrier. Poly is a good vapour barrier but often a poor air barrier because of nailholes and problems sealing the boundaries. It is just as easy to create an air seal with a good gib application.

The problem with poly is that it prevents vapour diffusing out of wall once it gets in which can lead to dampness and rot, especially when impermeable exterior linings such as XPS are used. Good rain-screening from outside and a well applied gib air barrier is generally perfectly sufficient.
 
























367 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 768733 25-Feb-2013 09:30 Send private message

I'm in Christchurch and we got our windows from NK windows.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 768734 25-Feb-2013 09:40 Send private message

Oriphix: Where did you get your PVC windows from? Since I am shopping around I would like to get a quote. Thanks.


North Island go for Eurowindows, run by a German husband and wife and Manfred knows his stuff and they can even import from Europe so you get it cheaper and with superior glazing.

367 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 10


  Reply # 768742 25-Feb-2013 09:57 Send private message

Ours are the same German brand as the euro windows.  They have the tilt-turn system i.e. sash can open as normal or by turning the handle a further 90 degrees they open at the top and tilt back.  One thing is that they open inwards.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 770684 26-Feb-2013 19:27 Send private message

We had our house (North Shore, Auckland) insulated with Airfoam about 5 years ago. It was injected from the inside into all exterior walls. As I was redecorating anyway there's been no problem with the filled holes as I just sanded them put a bit of gib finish comound on and sanded again then wallpapered. No Council Permit was required. Instant success with noticeably less heating reqired in winter.
We then had the place retrofitted with double glazing by Metro Glasstech. The glass was fitted to existing window frames with new mouldings to secure the panes and new sahes made for the opening windows. Excellent job although not cheap for the highest spec stuff (High-e glass with argon gas filling). Added laminate as well in the kitchen to reduce road noise from main road outside.
Once again, instant success. Less heating in winter and I estimated we had been losing roughly 1kw per hour heat loss straight through the old single glazing in the Lounge alone during winter. We use probably 50% less heating now. The glass now fogs up on the outside on high humidity mornings. The aluminium frames do get a bit of condensation inside when really cold but nothing like the moisture we used to get.
The final addition was window tint film to reduce ultra violet damage in some rooms. Reasonably cheap off Trademe in any size required and very easy to install once you find a few DIY videos on You Tube. Cost me about 30% of quoted price from professional window tinting companies and they won't sell direct to you so you can DIY either.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 770685 26-Feb-2013 19:32 Send private message

P.S. My sister-in law had HRV installed in her very old house a couple of years back. It is fairly efficient at removing moisture and distributing warmth in winter but after a year the ceilings around each vent are filthy and difficult if not impossible to clean. So much for textured ceilings. I suspect there's no filters installed. Doesn't seem to do anything at all in Summer.



283 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 770895 27-Feb-2013 09:26 Send private message

Got a quote yesterday for Aluminium double glazed windows....The price was $1600 more then the PVC window quote I got!







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