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  Reply # 974283 25-Jan-2014 20:08 Send private message

E2 of the building code says to refer to the NZ metal roofing COP. It's around 5.3 of NZ metal roofing COP if I remover correctly that specifies the expansion joint. But the scratches will be harder to get sorted. The wording nz steel uses is "Widespread coating damage to any COLORSTEEL® prepainted steel product can only be rectified by replacement of the affected sheets." But doesn't go into detail what they deem "widespread". Any warrantee claim made on the roof in its current state would have the strong possibility of being declined by nz steel because of how it was installed, the scratches.

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  Reply # 974284 25-Jan-2014 20:08 Send private message

i would not be happy with that if it were my house. the scratches just look like carelessness which means they should be made to fix it.

if you start with a sub standard job it just means you will be more likely to need the 25 year warranty on the materials or the 7 years on the labour.



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  Reply # 974305 25-Jan-2014 20:30 Send private message

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help and advice. I'll talk to the roofer, who's a nice and reasonable guy. I will of course approach this reasonably and gently. I have deliberately not mentioned the business name. Any further advice is appreciated.

I happen to work for the government department responsible for building standards, and I happen to know the regulator for the LBP scheme. I won't mention this to the company initially, unless they seem reluctant to address the issues.




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  Reply # 974349 25-Jan-2014 21:50 Send private message

The roofer replied to my email with pictures (on a Saturday night, which is very responsive) saying some of the sheets must have arrived damaged and they'll send the manufacturers rep around. It seems a little suspicious to me that all the scratches are very close to the screw holes, but I just thanked him for looking into it. I trust he'll sort it out one way or another.




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  Reply # 974356 25-Jan-2014 22:01 One person supports this post Send private message

Yea it sounds a bit dodgy to me to. I'm glad that the roofer is trying to get it sorted for you. :-)

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  Reply # 975450 27-Jan-2014 23:15 Send private message

Ok, sorry about that. I'll translate:

The ridge is at the top (apex) of the roof and is horizontal. This is where roof sheets from each side of the roof meet at the top and the junction is covered by the rolled metal flashing. Your photo 12 shows the ridge on the right hand side.

On the left hand side of the same photo are two hips. These slope down from the ridge to the outer corners right to the roof edge.

Where the three flashings meet is a critical junction and a pre-made one piece flashing shaped to fit the two hips and ridge is best. Alternatively if they have a large rubber piece underneath (butyl rubber acting as a "soaker" flashing) that covers the entire junction and that in turn is covered by the flashings you have in your photo it may work ok, but just be ugly.

I do not accept exposed sealant as a primary deflector of rainwater. It is fine when hidden by flashings as it is UV protected but on roofing should only be used for gasket seals. - Gasket seals are formed by joining two metal flashings together by lapping one over the other with sealant in between, then screwing or riveting them together through the line of sealant. The lap of one flashing over another should be minimum mm for gasket seals and 200 without.

The touch ups missed many of the scratches they were supposed to cover. The coloursteel coating and touch up paint will age differently over time and I have seen some that stand out and look really bad even from a distance. There are too many scratches for a new roof. Ask for replacement sheets

If you are in a sea spray zone then class 4 screws are necessary. Galv will not last. It looks like some of the gasket screws are galv.

Lastly laying the building paper vertically is easier but not a good idea. All you do is start at the ridge and let the paper roll down. This allows leaks to higher parts of the roof to roll off the side of the paper. When laid horizontally starting at the soffit and working your way up - leaks running downwards on top of the paper keep going all the way to the bottom and (theoretically) empty into the gutter as the higher levels of paper lap over the ones below.

Probably the best thing for you to have is the profiled metal roofing design and installation hand book - now a code of practice:

www.metalroofing.org.nz/code.htm.

Good luck and if you do need back up let me know your area and I'll see who is close to you.



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  Reply # 975510 28-Jan-2014 07:24 Send private message

Thanks Gazbo, I appreciate that. I've read through the metal roofing code of practice, though I don't have enough background of the terms to fully understand it.

When I talk to the roofer I guess the things I need are references to where in the code it says:
- Justification for replacing all the sheets that were scratched, regardless of whether touch up paint was used. I believe I've found that in the steel COP where it says scratches visible from 3m should have the sheet replaced, and that touch up paint is not an acceptable solution.
- A reference to where it says sealant shouldn't be the primary sealant on the ridge, and that there should be something under or over it to ensure it's weather tight.

Obviously referring to the CoP will have more weight than saying "someone I don't know on the internet said", regardless of how expert you guys are.

I'm in Johnsonville, Wellington. If you happen to know someone in the area who might be willing to do an assessment please PM me their details - though I will hold off until after I see what the roofers response is. My roofer is from this general area so before you contact anyone please check with me it's not them who did the job. I expect it will take a few days to organise a rep to have a look and determine that it wasn't a transport issue, that the roofers did the damage themselves.

Regardless of what he comes back with I think I'd like an expert assessment after he's fixed it, before I pay the final bill.




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  Reply # 976554 29-Jan-2014 11:20 Send private message

I talked to the roofer today. He said he's going to replace ten sheets tomorrow, which will fix the major dents (which I didn't even notice) and the major scratches. Some scratches were from transport, but it looks to me most are from carelessness. It'll still have some scratches, and he plans to use one of the two forms of touch up paint. He says the warranty from the manufacturer will cover if the roof discolors where the touch up paint is used, so it wouldn't matter if he goes out of business - I wonder about labour. He said unwilling to supply a roof with no scratches, as it's not practical or necessary.

He also said as background info unless you can see the scratch from the ground you generally don't worry about it, and none of the scratches is through the galv. He said the paint is really only for decoration. He also said the galv screws were fine, something's done for heat expansion.

Any thoughts from the guys here?




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  Reply # 976882 29-Jan-2014 20:10 Send private message

Great news,

It is incorrect that nz steel will cover the touch up paint for discolouring. In a issue of Rooflink which ranz publish, they had a article of how much touch up fades in comparison to the sheets.

The fact that they are blaming some of the scratches on transport seems dam near impossible as the top sheet in each of the different lengths is flipped upside down so the coloured side is never exposed.

The screws will be fine, If a little untidy looking. We prefer coloured rivets.

I went out to a site today to check up on one of my teams, a 40 degree pitched roof and I can guarantee there is no scratches. It's not hard if you take a little extra time.



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  Reply # 976895 29-Jan-2014 21:00 Send private message

Thanks Rick. I talked to an independent roofing consultant, he said replace sheets with significant scratches, apply touch up paint to small scratches but do it a lot more carefully than they have done. He did also say the job overall is above average.




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  Reply # 976940 29-Jan-2014 22:23 2 people support this post Send private message

interesting read

and kudos to you rick - informative and comprehensive advice - nice one mate



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  Reply # 977540 30-Jan-2014 16:39 Send private message

They replaced a number of sheets today, I don't know how many, at least six and more likely a dozen or more. Here are some snaps from on the roof now. Of particular interest is the first shot, a screw hole filled with silicone.

Thoughts from the experts most appreciated, and whether I should reject and of these as unacceptable. There's also the option of getting an independent expert in, but that could cost me at least many hundreds or likely more.

Hole filled with silicone



Swarf


Touch up paint is used extensively


A scratch covered with interesting texture





Screw not in properly






Dent


Bathroom vent (note no top, which I think is 100% fine)






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  Reply # 977553 30-Jan-2014 16:57 Send private message

I gotta say, it's photos like this that make me very worried about the fact I want to replace my roof this year. I'm no expert, so I would be pretty unhappy with a job like that. Particularly the silicon filled holes and the dents, that just strikes me as lazy. I don't know enough to know if any of it's problematic or not. I hope not!

I woudn't want to be unreasonable, but if it's not a good job I'd want it fixed.

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  Reply # 977555 30-Jan-2014 16:59 Send private message

When I got an independent roofing inspector in for a new roof which was part of a new build, it was over a thousand, but I think they came down from PN and were doing quite a few inspections in the wellington region at the same time. They did find quite a few problems, and were very comprehensive, and they were very knowledgeable. I can PM you the name of the inspector if you want, although they did it about 8 years ago so not sure if they are still doing them.



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  Reply # 977572 30-Jan-2014 17:35 One person supports this post Send private message

I don't think I want to pay over a thousand dollars.

The roofer has replied to my email saying that hole needs at least a fixing screw in it. He's also asked me how many sheets need to be replaced. I've suggested he decide, I don't like being on the roof.

While the job his guys have done isn't tip top the boss/owner is reasonably responsive. I think we'll resolve this to my satisfaction in the near future.

Things often go wrong, but when a company follows up and puts things right that's almost as good as doing it right the first time in my opinion.




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