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Forums › Home Workshop › HRV home ventilation 'vs' the Air Movement Solutions system -
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216 posts

Master Geek
  Reply # 356350 26-Jul-2010 09:16 Send private message

We have a heat transfer system, taking the Kent fire's heat from the lounge down to the other end of the house via 6m of ducting. Can hardly hear the inline fan and have found that it really does a good job; the warm air coming down from the outlet is much more than we would have expected, similar to what you get when you walk into a shop in winter that has a curtain heater.

We no longer use the wall heater in the hall now and the bedrooms feel warmer. We also installed underfloor insulation when we installed the heat transfer kit. We don't really have a condensation problem, but then we take care to open windows during the day and on fine winter days also have the doors open etc.

4 posts

Wannabe Geek
  Reply # 373195 26-Aug-2010 16:21 Send private message

From what I understand it really depends what you want from the system. Ventilation systems are not heaters in any way shape or form. If your primary goal is to dry your home I would look at the likes of a DVS however if you have a newish well insulated very tight home then these types of systms struggle to work. The problem is the positive pressure systems like DVS work on forcing warm dry air into the home but if your home is reasonably air tight then the damp air inside the home can't be forced out through cracks and joins. If this is the case then I would look at a balanced pressure system. It does the same job but uses a second fan to take the stale damp air out at the same rate as the warm dry air is being forced in. With this you also recover some of the heat you have already paid for without pushing it out through cracks. As I said it depends what your primary concern is and also the type of home you have. I would say all ventilation is good ventilation though.

{MOD EDIT : SP : Thanks for your informative post. Note I have removed the model you mentioned as I would hate someone to accuse you of joining this site purely to promote the product your employer sells, that would be against our FUG. Have a nice day.}

1163 posts

Uber Geek
  Reply # 373403 26-Aug-2010 23:23

My question regarding all these ventillation systems, is have scientific tests been undertaken on them , as to how well they work. Have Branz done any testing of them? It is a lot of money to spend on something that 'may' work.

1163 posts

Uber Geek
  Reply # 373404 26-Aug-2010 23:25

corna: From what I understand it really depends what you want from the system. Ventilation systems are not heaters in any way shape or form. If your primary goal is to dry your home I would look at the likes of a DVS however if you have a newish well insulated very tight home then these types of systms struggle to work. The problem is the positive pressure systems like DVS work on forcing warm dry air into the home but if your home is reasonably air tight then the damp air inside the home can't be forced out through cracks and joins. If this is the case then I would look at a balanced pressure system. It does the same job but uses a second fan to take the stale damp air out at the same rate as the warm dry air is being forced in. With this you also recover some of the heat you have already paid for without pushing it out through cracks. As I said it depends what your primary concern is and also the type of home you have. I would say all ventilation is good ventilation though.

{MOD EDIT : SP : Thanks for your informative post. Note I have removed the model you mentioned as I would hate someone to accuse you of joining this site purely to promote the product your employer sells, that would be against our FUG. Have a nice day.}


If these systems really create a higher pressure inside the house, a simple barometer can be used to test the inside pressure, vs teh outside pressure. With the huge gaps in a house, a small fan is unlikely going to make any difference to create a pressure difference.

4 posts

Wannabe Geek
  Reply # 373439 27-Aug-2010 09:08 Send private message

There has been a fair amount of research done on home ventilation systems.  BRANZ have done the most part of it and you'll also find a really good informative report done by EECA at http://www.eeca.govt.nz/sites/all/files/home-ventilation-report-06-09.pdf . You are right though, if you have a really leaky home then the home won't preassurize however the air will still move through it.  If this is the case you should probably be looking at insulation anyway.  Heating, insulation and ventilation and the three key things every one talks about, if you don't have one it's kind of like the fire triangle (you don't have a fire or you don't have a warm comfortable home).  If the home is as leaky as you have suggested it could be then you might as well be heating half the town you live in.  If you insualte that home and heat it then you need some sort of ventilation as now all the moisture producde in your home on a day to day basis is condensating on your windows and being absorbed into your furnishings.  I hope this helps  :-)

1163 posts

Uber Geek
  Reply # 373648 27-Aug-2010 16:11

corna: There has been a fair amount of research done on home ventilation systems.  BRANZ have done the most part of it and you'll also find a really good informative report done by EECA at http://www.eeca.govt.nz/sites/all/files/home-ventilation-report-06-09.pdf . You are right though, if you have a really leaky home then the home won't preassurize however the air will still move through it.  If this is the case you should probably be looking at insulation anyway.  Heating, insulation and ventilation and the three key things every one talks about, if you don't have one it's kind of like the fire triangle (you don't have a fire or you don't have a warm comfortable home).  If the home is as leaky as you have suggested it could be then you might as well be heating half the town you live in.  If you insualte that home and heat it then you need some sort of ventilation as now all the moisture producde in your home on a day to day basis is condensating on your windows and being absorbed into your furnishings.  I hope this helps  :-)



 

It is however healthly to have fresh air circulating through the house, that has come from teh outside. You don't really want the dirty air from teh roof space, coming back into the house, along with the fibre glass particles, which are too small for most filters.  You can actually design the house to use the stack effect, where it naturally ventillates. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_effect  and is the best option if you are building from new.

 

Most people are simply getting these systems for condensation issues, however the ventillation system we had installed by one of the big companies, never fixed this for us, and really it doesn't do a heck of a lot.

4 posts

Wannabe Geek
  Reply # 373650 27-Aug-2010 16:17 Send private message

If you got a ventilation system installed by a company who said they would eliminate your misture problems or your "crying windows" and it doesn't I'd go back to them...  They have to stick by what they sell.  Like I said before though it depends on what your primary concern is, moisture problems or you want better ventilation. I've found that a lot of people want better ventilation because they are out working all day and their house is locked up.  For this purpose a balanced system which brings outside air in would be the best.  If have found with most of these sytems that if you run a dehumidifier for a couple of weeks and get rid of as much moisture as possible and run the ventilation system from then on then you will have a much warmer dryer home.  The ventilation systems will remove some moisture but they aren't a dehumidifer.  If you have done the dehumidifer thing then usually the ventilation system can keep the moisture under control from then on.

1163 posts

Uber Geek
  Reply # 373654 27-Aug-2010 16:27

corna: If you got a ventilation system installed by a company who said they would eliminate your misture problems or your "crying windows" and it doesn't I'd go back to them...  They have to stick by what they sell.  Like I said before though it depends on what your primary concern is, moisture problems or you want better ventilation. I've found that a lot of people want better ventilation because they are out working all day and their house is locked up.  For this purpose a balanced system which brings outside air in would be the best.  If have found with most of these sytems that if you run a dehumidifier for a couple of weeks and get rid of as much moisture as possible and run the ventilation system from then on then you will have a much warmer dryer home.  The ventilation systems will remove some moisture but they aren't a dehumidifer.  If you have done the dehumidifer thing then usually the ventilation system can keep the moisture under control from then on.


 

I don't disagree. However if you want better and cheaper 'ventialltion' in a residential situation, you just open a window to get some fresh air then close it. I can understand in a high rise, not all rooms have windows, so may benefit from mechanical ventialltion.


We did go back to the company regarding our ventilation system, however they said we needed to keep all our doors open at all times, which isn't practical. They said they could remove it, but it would leave big ugly holes in the ceiling, with vent covers, so we just put up with it.

 


 

 

4 posts

Wannabe Geek
  Reply # 373656 27-Aug-2010 16:31 Send private message

Opening your window is obviously the cheapest, easiest solution however in the middle of Winter when you have your heater cranking because it's so cold you really don't want to be opening a window.  This is the kind of situation when you want a balanced system.  With the balance system it is just like opening a window but when the col air is coming in from outside at the same time the warm air is taken from inside.  When these two streams of air pass each other in ther heat exchanger the warm air warms up the cold air and then it gets sent into the house.  Now instead of having cold fresh dry air through your window, you have warm fresh dry air from your ventilation system.

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