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297 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 831381 5-Jun-2013 23:37 Send private message

Wade:
ChillingSilence: I'm kind of disappointed with how many "Techy only" features there are, that the *vast* majority of people will absolutely never use, consider, or even know exists.


I would have to agree... I suspect that most of the techies would not even use a Telco supplied modem in any case. The success of this initiative is going to be driven from the mass market who are non techie mums & dads who will want something simple to setup and administer , throw a couple of whizz bang features like being able to allocate data or time allowances to the kids and done.


Finally somebody who talks some sense around here! :D

@Paulbags,

Try Gargoyles quota system, does pretty much all of that except donating part of your quota.

3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 831383 5-Jun-2013 23:49 Send private message

OK I've searched and searched but have only seen this obliquely mentioned, but not explicitly.

Out of box the device should be at maximum security settings. This would ensure that non-technical users are protected from lax default settings. Forces more advanced users to be cognoscente as to what they are undoing.

Included should be a plain English manual or help system which basically says if you want to change this function, here is how to do it and these are the implications of doing so. Wizard availability too?

22 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 831400 6-Jun-2013 00:46 Send private message

Shame the voting on these ideas was fundamentally flawed and caused the nonsense crap on the first few pages to be voted on and a lot of good ideas a few pages in to never see the light of day. Some of these 15 features are either already in most modern routers (5GHz, VPN Support, wall mounting), are duplicates (bandwidth metering per device and flat-mates data view) or shouldn't be on a router (spectrum analyser - who cares? modern routers auto-select free channels), (quota display - for the hardware development expense, we already get email alerts and get more detail through software).

Can we have an option to down-vote ideas off this list of 15 - or reason them off and get the next popular ones on? Also should reset all the voting to zero going into round two - if it wasn't already. Too late? Probably. :)

-KENT



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  Reply # 831419 6-Jun-2013 07:33 Send private message

Calm down folks. Telecom project managers is going to look into all features in the list, simply because some (as you suspect) may already have been implemented in a baseline OS, or because there will be problems with consolidation, etc.

Remember we are collecting ideas here. We have two weeks to do it and this will be passed on to a team that will pour through them, reconcile with existing features, balance the impact of others and come with the a final list.

The voting is to give a direction. Even though is not in the top 15, one thing I discussed with Telecom last Tuesday was that a clear message was sent about ease of use, need for a simple page with status indicators and if possible even advice on how some of the stats influence speed and if you're on DSL where a problem could be happening.

We also talked about the high number of votes people posted into monitoring usage, and how interesting seeing that we're moving to a larger cap plan environment.

I think it's contradictory in terms that the most voted feature is monitoring usage. If the comments of some here were completely correct (only techies/geeks voted) then I'd think this wouldn't be a high voted feature because this can be done in other ways and most techies already do it.

To me this indicates there's a good number of non-techies/geeks voting in these rounds.







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  Reply # 831428 6-Jun-2013 07:54 One person supports this post Send private message

Wade: I would have to agree... I suspect that most of the techies would not even use a Telco supplied modem in any case.  


Remember, this is not a freebie router. This is not a "free throw in with a $19.95 plan" router.

Wade: The success of this initiative is going to be driven from the mass market who are non techie mums & dads who will want something simple to setup and administer , throw a couple of whizz bang features like being able to allocate data or time allowances to the kids and done. 


Correct. While some of you folks seem to be talking down some suggestions (like the spectrum analyzer and the quota management/usage monitoring), remember this is a router that will be used in the mass market.

As you said, for non-techies, but with a good balance of performance, features and price. but it has to be good enough for techies to use it too if they want.








55 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 831432 6-Jun-2013 08:04 Send private message

Little bit dissapointed as well with what made the list.

Some of the features really are "power user" features, and I would suspect these people would rather have something like a Fritz!box or have some sort of custom router between their modem/switch.

DLNA server built into the device, thats a huge amount of processing power - will need a decent processor just to run that. Though would like to see the ability for it to connect a NAS/External HDD as network share

Wifi spectrum analyzer? The people that would use that would most likely have a smartphone or something that can do this already.

4 PoE ports? Who needs 4 PoE ports...i'm sure not 99.9% of customers.

I think the bandwidth management stuff is a fantastic idea - not just the control, but the reporting. Be awesome to graph it for easy visual assessment - and the ability for Telecom to pull this or to email the data to Telecom or something, for those who are less tech savvy and need to work out where their bandwidth is being used.

Also really like the multiple DNS thing, for assigning to individual/ranges of IP's - that would be fantastic :)

841 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 831440 6-Jun-2013 08:49 Send private message

freitasm:
Correct. While some of you folks seem to be talking down some suggestions (like the spectrum analyzer and the quota management/usage monitoring), remember this is a router that will be used in the mass market.


Indeed, although a spectrum analyser in itself is useless as a lot of non-technical people see "channel 2" and go for it.

However a router which automatically selected the least congested band based on spectrum analysis would be useful to everyone as the non-geeks wouldn't be screwing things up for us (I made that suggestion but it didn't get enough votes).

Jon



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  Reply # 831442 6-Jun-2013 08:50 2 people support this post Send private message

All comments here are going to be taken with the ideas... Remember, it's a brainstorm operation.




22 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 831488 6-Jun-2013 10:30 Send private message

All good - was worried we are going to end up with Homers car :)

http://onscreencars.com/tv/the-homer-the-car-built-for-homer/



-KENT

483 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 85


  Reply # 831493 6-Jun-2013 10:44 Send private message

ChillingSilence: @Paulbags,

Try Gargoyles quota system, does pretty much all of that except donating part of your quota.

Does it run on any xDSL modem/routers? Because I can't find any indication that it does, and I don't want to be running two boxes.

jonherries:
freitasm:
Correct. While some of you folks seem to be talking down some suggestions (like the spectrum analyzer and the quota management/usage monitoring), remember this is a router that will be used in the mass market.


Indeed, although a spectrum analyser in itself is useless as a lot of non-technical people see "channel 2" and go for it.

However a router which automatically selected the least congested band based on spectrum analysis would be useful to everyone as the non-geeks wouldn't be screwing things up for us (I made that suggestion but it didn't get enough votes).

Jon

The two aren't mutually exclusive, it can have a basic wizard for the non-geeks that just tells them it's selecting the best band during wireless setup, and an advanced mode for those who have some idea what they're doing. It's not that important to me, but I'd like to be able to run the analyser for ~24hours just to see if anything in the neighbourhood will interfere, not just to see what devices are currently using channels nearby.


And not to be too snarky, but:
Jarsky: ... Some of the features really are "power user" features ... Also really like the multiple DNS thing, for assigning to individual/ranges of IP's ...


Let the discussion continue :).

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  Reply # 831516 6-Jun-2013 11:15 One person supports this post Send private message

The issue I have with this list of things is that they are all available in high end routers already, with the exception of bandwidth monitoring to a degree.
What will be impressive though is Telecom building all these features in to a easy to use GUI. Definitely will need a 'basic' and 'advanced' view to make it workable for most end users.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 831596 6-Jun-2013 13:45 Send private message

Despite the fact I have been running the current freebie TG582N Telecom modem I thought i might finally get around to reading the user guide, enlightened I now know that it does DLNA, 3G fallover ability, remote management etc,  I knew it had file/media server ability and WPS out of the box.

Telecom are half way there already, add a couple of features to the existing design and 95% of the GZ world would probably be more than happy 

297 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 37


  Reply # 831620 6-Jun-2013 14:32 Send private message

freitasm:
Wade: I would have to agree... I suspect that most of the techies would not even use a Telco supplied modem in any case.  


Remember, this is not a freebie router. This is not a "free throw in with a $19.95 plan" router.

How on earth are you going to convince them to pay for it unless it's *incredibly* cheap then. Most people who go with an ISP will either use the ISP-supplied free one, or will go down to DSE and get the cheapest possible D-Link one possible.
This device is going to have to be *cheap* to make it viable, and on top of that if a customer is paying for it, they're going to ask:

What is this giving me that the free one I can get from Vodafone won't give me?

Answer: It's going to give you 4x PoE ports and a spectrum analyzer

Which will lead to the next question:

WTF is that and why the hell do I want it if I don't even know what it is , what it does, or how to set it up?


Wade: The success of this initiative is going to be driven from the mass market who are non techie mums & dads who will want something simple to setup and administer , throw a couple of whizz bang features like being able to allocate data or time allowances to the kids and done. 

I agree!


freitasm: As you said, for non-techies, but with a good balance of performance, features and price. but it has to be good enough for techies to use it too if they want.

I disagree completely. A techie user will happily go out and buy something specific to their needs. A home user will usually just take what they're given, or take whatever is cheapest.


Jarsky: Little bit dissapointed as well with what made the list. 

Some of the features really are "power user" features, and I would suspect these people would rather have something like a Fritz!box or have some sort of custom router between their modem/switch. 

DLNA server built into the device, thats a huge amount of processing power - will need a decent processor just to run that. Though would like to see the ability for it to connect a NAS/External HDD as network share 

Wifi spectrum analyzer? The people that would use that would most likely have a smartphone or something that can do this already. 

4 PoE ports? Who needs 4 PoE ports...i'm sure not 99.9% of customers. 

I think the bandwidth management stuff is a fantastic idea - not just the control, but the reporting. Be awesome to graph it for easy visual assessment - and the ability for Telecom to pull this or to email the data to Telecom or something, for those who are less tech savvy and need to work out where their bandwidth is being used. 

Also really like the multiple DNS thing, for assigning to individual/ranges of IP's - that would be fantastic :)


Wholeheartedly agree, most of those things are just not needed and going to add a huge burden on the system for very little benefit to very few users


jonherries: 
However a router which automatically selected the least congested band based on spectrum analysis would be useful to everyone as the non-geeks wouldn't be screwing things up for us (I made that suggestion but it didn't get enough votes).

Jon


Yeah I'm with you on this, fantastic idea! Less on the GUI, more automatic "useful" stuff that requires *zero* configuration, and nothing on the WebUI for it that could end up confusing end-users.
Right now aside from me, I know of maybe 2 other people in real life who actually have gone in to their router aside from the initial setup. Other than that, the vast majority of people I know simply throw in their username, password, and if it goes then that's it, they're online! Half of them at least haven't even bothered to change the default WiFi SSID or Key.


PaulBags: Does it run on any xDSL modem/routers? Because I can't find any indication that it does, and I don't want to be running two boxes.

Nope, it doesn't, but that's my point. If you had that TP-Link TL-WR1043ND with an ADSL2+ / VDSL2 port, running Gargoyle firmware (Which is open source), it'd be a HUGE step in the right direction. It's already leaps and bounds above ANY other router device I've seen an ISP offer.
I mean geez have you guys seen the Thomson WebUI. I'd rather slit my wrists than use it...

chevrolux: The issue I have with this list of things is that they are all available in high end routers already, with the exception of bandwidth monitoring to a degree. 
What will be impressive though is Telecom building all these features in to a easy to use GUI. Definitely will need a 'basic' and 'advanced' view to make it workable for most end users.

Yes, absolutely, the current GUI of most routers out there like the Huawei ones from Vodafone and the Thomson / Technicolor ones from Telecom are so bad it's not even funny. No wonder they buy them for pittance!

Wade: Despite the fact I have been running the current freebie TG582N Telecom modem I thought i might finally get around to reading the user guide, enlightened I now know that it does DLNA, 3G fallover ability, remote management etc,  I knew it had file/media server ability and WPS out of the box. 

Telecom are half way there already, add a couple of features to the existing design and 95% of the GZ world would probably be more than happy 

Exactly! There *are* some nice features in there (Though how well they ACTUALLY work is another thing altogether), but you have absolutely zero chance of getting "Mum and dad home user" to read any kind of a manual. They want to plug it in, get online, get their emails and their facebook and that's it...
The power users who read manuals won't be interested in a single all-in-one device because all power users know their needs are uniquely different from another power users requirements...



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  Reply # 831630 6-Jun-2013 14:40 Send private message

I would appreciate if no bad words were used in this discussion or any other in this forum for that matter.







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  Reply # 831709 6-Jun-2013 17:02 2 people support this post Send private message

Folks, althought it may seem at first we're talking about a modem and router device we're actually looking at a modem and gateway devices rolled into one. I think it may even head towards a digital content consumption/distribution device.

I say that because I am told by Telecom they want to explore some extra ideas they have. I will post these in a new topic tomorrow when I have their questions.





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