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96 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 826725 27-May-2013 23:18 Send private message

openmedia: Can we get a vote against option as well as a vote for. There are a number of suggestions which would be a no no for me.


Agreed. I just want my router to be a reliable and standards-complaint xDSL/UFB/Ethernet/802.11agbn router capable of handing anything me and other users throw at it, full stop. None of this media server, shared hard drives, VoIP, website/day-of-time/etc filtering, etc stuff which are all better off as separate devices plugged into the router. At the end of the day if the router is to be successful it needs to do one thing well and not try and be everything to all people. If people really need other stuff they can find other devices which does those things well and plug them into the network. For example I'm keen to have a media server but I would prefer to build my own rig (standard PC components + open source software) rather than try and get my router to do that.

Looking at the routers I've used over the years the most reliable kits I've used has been the ones that just routes. The crappiest kits are often the ones with all the additional marketing features that usually end up getting in my way.

Just my two cents...

- James

297 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 37


  Reply # 826727 27-May-2013 23:19 3 people support this post Send private message

KiwiSurfer:
openmedia: Can we get a vote against option as well as a vote for. There are a number of suggestions which would be a no no for me.


Agreed. I just want my router to be a reliable and standards-complaint xDSL/UFB/Ethernet/802.11agbn router capable of handing anything me and other users throw at it, full stop. None of this media server, shared hard drives, VoIP, website/day-of-time/etc filtering, etc stuff which are all better off as separate devices plugged into the router. At the end of the day if the router is to be successful it needs to do one thing well and not try and be everything to all people. If people really need other stuff they can find other devices which does those things well and plug them into the network. For example I'm keen to have a media server but I would prefer to build my own rig (standard PC components + open source software) rather than try and get my router to do that.

Looking at the routers I've used over the years the most reliable kits I've used has been the ones that just routes. The crappiest kits are often the ones with all the additional marketing features that usually end up getting in my way.

Just my two cents...

- James


Couldn't agree more!
Was just discussing it with some friends, spitballing the idea outside of these forums, and here's what I came up with:
This kind of a router *shouldn't* have a ton of features. That's not what the mass market needs, that's not what consumers want, it's what power-users want and they can already get it with minimal work.

Here's what it needs hardware wise
1x WAN port (For UFB)
1x ADSL2+ / VDSL2 port
4x Gigabit LAN
802.11n Wireless support
64MB RAM
16MB Flash
Semi-decent CPU for it
1x FXS port for use with an analog phone

Here's what it *doesn't* need hardware wise:
USB - Most people who want to share a printer can do-so themselves or leave a desktop PC on. Same for sharing a HDD. It's a "nice to have" but realistically very rarely used by any group *but* the geeks and enthusiasts
HDMI output - Save that for your Raspberry Pi or similar media centre / file-server. You want to offer a router, you want it to be reliable, you don't want it doing everything under the sun and you don't want things most people haven't heard of, nor know how to setup
802.11ac wireless support - It's not even an official standard, plus the router is gonna be given away free by the ISP, so it can't cost an arm and a leg for what is currently minimal benefits. Maybe in a year or two.
USB3 - See the aforementioned about "USB" (USB2.0), there's just very little point
Small display on the device to see data usage - Adds too much cost for too little benefit, considering data caps are variable per-customer... easier to do from the Telecom website.
3G / 4G Failover - Could be done via USB, but again it's not something the average home user actually cares about. They can buy a router that does that if they *really* are that worried about their internet going down.
8 LAN ports - No for people who have bigger homes that are wired up, they're going to need a switch anyway, 8 ports isn't enough, so if 4 won't do them they should just buy a switch
PoE - No point, that's for enthusiasts who want to power phones or other networking kit, not for the masses
2.5" HDD support - Again, just get a USB caddy and hook it up to your RPi or similar
Rackmount gear - Home users don't rackmount their routers. Most small -> medium businesses don't even bother either.

Now here's what it needs software wise under "Basic settings":
A status section that shows: Sync speed, SNR, Attenuation, if the line has authenticated and if you're online
A status section that shows current bandwidth utilization, similar to what Gargoyle shows under its "Bandwidth Usage" page
A status section that shows you your SIP Status, if you're registered or not
A "Prioritize my VoIP" button that allocates them 160kbps of bandwidth up and down at highest priorities, always reserved for their VoIP connection to / from the IP of their SIP Server (Two concurrent calls worth using g711)
Username
Password
Wireless name
Wireless security password
SIP Server
SIP Username
SIP Password

Then in the "Advanced Settings" section have a couple of pages:
Port forwarding
Static DHCP leases (Naming devices)
Per-device or network-wide quotas (See Gargoyle for this)
Download QoS
Upload QoS
Access Restrictions (Again, see Gargoyle for this)
Allow changing of the LAN IP and Subnet, maybe alternative DNS servers
Allow changing of the Wireless channel, wireless encryption type (Change from the WPA2-PSK default) or disabling WiFi altogether
Allow additional SIP settings such as specifying codecs?
Allow changing the remote management port and the admin password
Must also support VPNs, such as PPTP / OpenVPN. Not as a client, just as passthrough (Orcon Genius router has had issues with PPTP, it's a %@#$&)
Dynamic DNS too perhaps?

Done....

Now here's what we *dont* want:
DLNA - Just no... Save that for your RPi
Two WiFi SSID's - Too much setup for most users, and not really required if you can set per-device quotas or other restrictions like you can in Gargoyle
WiFi Spectrum analyzer - Too advanced for most home users, will only confuse them
Samba / bittorrent / ftp / other daemon - Just no, not for the average home user, power users can run that on something like their RPi
Mobile-specific WebUI - The standard one should be cut-down and simple enough to work just fine on a Cellphone
Smart alerts / reporting - Keep it simple, allow them to set Quotas. If the user hits it, that's it, they hit it, no need to try and configure email alerts and things coz then they've gotta setup an email server... too much for the average home user
VPN Host / Client - Too difficult to setup. Most home users will have their laptop setup by their office, so supporting passthrough is cool, but if you want to host a PPTP or OpenVPN connection you can easily do it from your windows / linux box and just port-forward

Other cool things (Settings etc) worth mentioning:
Security by default, such as a randomized wireless security key, and the wireless name also including the last 6 digits of the MAC address
A new admin password chosen upon first login
WPS disabled entirely
Remote Management only via TR-069 by default
Open source firmware based off OpenWRT
ADSL2+ set to use PPPoA, VC-Mux, 0/100 (All hidden coz they're standard settings), or VDSL2 to use the 8b profile with PPPoE

Things like that.


Thoughts? Could you do most of what an "Average Joe" would?

10126 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 266

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  Reply # 826730 27-May-2013 23:25 2 people support this post Send private message

Printers all come with wifi on them now anyway, which works directly with an app for iDevices and android. The days of needing a router to share a printer are gone. If you dont have one that does that, go spend $50 on a new one that does. Much better than any crippled printer sharing.




Richard rich.ms

96 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 826735 27-May-2013 23:44 Send private message

ChillingSilence: This kind of a router *shouldn't* have a ton of features. That's not what the mass market needs, that's not what consumers want, it's what power-users want and they can already get it with minimal work.


Exactly what I was thinking, I'm really glad there are others thinking along the same lines. I'm often disappointed with the lack of decent choices for residential ADSL/Ethernet/802.11 routing gear and I think part of the problem is the fascination with adding useless features which introduces more problems than it solves. *grumbles* So I'm keen not to see that happen to this project which I'm very hopeful will actually produce a router I would be proud to buy and recommend to friends.

I agree with all your point with the sole exceptions listed below:-

1x FXS port for use with an analog phone


I'm Deaf so perhaps I'm missing the reason for the fascination of adding phone ports to an router. You will notice above I'm a pretty barebones sort of guy when it comes to routers. Is there a significant market of people who *need* their analogue phone? My observation is that people are migrating to using mobile as the main (or even only channel) for voice calls and switching to naked DSL for their wired connection. Is a phone port really needed I have to ask...?

The only places where VoIP seem to have gained traction is in workplaces where it makes sense to allocate a fixed VoIP phone to each worker and set up the SIP infrastructure to support the SIP phones. But in homes, it's quickly becoming the norm for each individual to have their own mobile phone. And given this device is targeted at the residential market I am dubious about this idea for adding VoIP, SIP, QOS for VoIP, etc for a feature that might not be something the typical residential consumer will use several years down the road.

Just food for this discussion -- if it ends up in the product I wouldn't loose any sleep over it as long as it's done right.

- James

1063 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 121


  Reply # 826737 27-May-2013 23:44 Send private message

ChillingSilence:
KiwiSurfer:
openmedia: Can we get a vote against option as well as a vote for. There are a number of suggestions which would be a no no for me.


Agreed. I just want my router to be a reliable and standards-complaint xDSL/UFB/Ethernet/802.11agbn router capable of handing anything me and other users throw at it, full stop. None of this media server, shared hard drives, VoIP, website/day-of-time/etc filtering, etc stuff which are all better off as separate devices plugged into the router. At the end of the day if the router is to be successful it needs to do one thing well and not try and be everything to all people. If people really need other stuff they can find other devices which does those things well and plug them into the network. For example I'm keen to have a media server but I would prefer to build my own rig (standard PC components + open source software) rather than try and get my router to do that.

Looking at the routers I've used over the years the most reliable kits I've used has been the ones that just routes. The crappiest kits are often the ones with all the additional marketing features that usually end up getting in my way.

Just my two cents...

- James


Couldn't agree more!
Was just discussing it with some friends, spitballing the idea outside of these forums, and here's what I came up with:
This kind of a router *shouldn't* have a ton of features. That's not what the mass market needs, that's not what consumers want, it's what power-users want and they can already get it with minimal work.

Here's what it needs hardware wise
1x WAN port (For UFB)
1x ADSL2+ / VDSL2 port
4x Gigabit LAN
802.11n Wireless support
64MB RAM
16MB Flash
Semi-decent CPU for it
1x FXS port for use with an analog phone

Here's what it *doesn't* need hardware wise:
USB - Most people who want to share a printer can do-so themselves or leave a desktop PC on. Same for sharing a HDD. It's a "nice to have" but realistically very rarely used by any group *but* the geeks and enthusiasts
HDMI output - Save that for your Raspberry Pi or similar media centre / file-server. You want to offer a router, you want it to be reliable, you don't want it doing everything under the sun and you don't want things most people haven't heard of, nor know how to setup
802.11ac wireless support - It's not even an official standard, plus the router is gonna be given away free by the ISP, so it can't cost an arm and a leg for what is currently minimal benefits. Maybe in a year or two.
USB3 - See the aforementioned about "USB" (USB2.0), there's just very little point
Small display on the device to see data usage - Adds too much cost for too little benefit, considering data caps are variable per-customer... easier to do from the Telecom website.
3G / 4G Failover - Could be done via USB, but again it's not something the average home user actually cares about. They can buy a router that does that if they *really* are that worried about their internet going down.
8 LAN ports - No for people who have bigger homes that are wired up, they're going to need a switch anyway, 8 ports isn't enough, so if 4 won't do them they should just buy a switch
PoE - No point, that's for enthusiasts who want to power phones or other networking kit, not for the masses
2.5" HDD support - Again, just get a USB caddy and hook it up to your RPi or similar
Rackmount gear - Home users don't rackmount their routers. Most small -> medium businesses don't even bother either.

Now here's what it needs software wise under "Basic settings":
A status section that shows: Sync speed, SNR, Attenuation, if the line has authenticated and if you're online
A status section that shows current bandwidth utilization, similar to what Gargoyle shows under its "Bandwidth Usage" page
A status section that shows you your SIP Status, if you're registered or not
A "Prioritize my VoIP" button that allocates them 160kbps of bandwidth up and down at highest priorities, always reserved for their VoIP connection to / from the IP of their SIP Server (Two concurrent calls worth using g711)
Username
Password
Wireless name
Wireless security password
SIP Server
SIP Username
SIP Password

Then in the "Advanced Settings" section have a couple of pages:
Port forwarding
Static DHCP leases (Naming devices)
Per-device or network-wide quotas (See Gargoyle for this)
Download QoS
Upload QoS
Access Restrictions (Again, see Gargoyle for this)
Allow changing of the LAN IP and Subnet, maybe alternative DNS servers
Allow changing of the Wireless channel, wireless encryption type (Change from the WPA2-PSK default) or disabling WiFi altogether
Allow additional SIP settings such as specifying codecs?
Allow changing the remote management port and the admin password
Must also support VPNs, such as PPTP / OpenVPN. Not as a client, just as passthrough (Orcon Genius router has had issues with PPTP, it's a %@#$&)
Dynamic DNS too perhaps?

Done....

Now here's what we *dont* want:
DLNA - Just no... Save that for your RPi
Two WiFi SSID's - Too much setup for most users, and not really required if you can set per-device quotas or other restrictions like you can in Gargoyle
WiFi Spectrum analyzer - Too advanced for most home users, will only confuse them
Samba / bittorrent / ftp / other daemon - Just no, not for the average home user, power users can run that on something like their RPi
Mobile-specific WebUI - The standard one should be cut-down and simple enough to work just fine on a Cellphone
Smart alerts / reporting - Keep it simple, allow them to set Quotas. If the user hits it, that's it, they hit it, no need to try and configure email alerts and things coz then they've gotta setup an email server... too much for the average home user
VPN Host / Client - Too difficult to setup. Most home users will have their laptop setup by their office, so supporting passthrough is cool, but if you want to host a PPTP or OpenVPN connection you can easily do it from your windows / linux box and just port-forward

Other cool things (Settings etc) worth mentioning:
Security by default, such as a randomized wireless security key, and the wireless name also including the last 6 digits of the MAC address
A new admin password chosen upon first login
WPS disabled entirely
Remote Management only via TR-069 by default
Open source firmware based off OpenWRT
ADSL2+ set to use PPPoA, VC-Mux, 0/100 (All hidden coz they're standard settings), or VDSL2 to use the 8b profile with PPPoE

Things like that.


Thoughts? Could you do most of what an "Average Joe" would?


i agree, although i do think it needs voip.













3397 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 797

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  Reply # 826739 27-May-2013 23:48 Send private message

ChillingSilence:
Here's what it needs hardware wise
1x WAN port (For UFB)
1x ADSL2+ / VDSL2 port
4x Gigabit LAN
802.11n Wireless support
64MB RAM
16MB Flash
Semi-decent CPU for it
1x FXS port for use with an analog phone

Here's what it *doesn't* need hardware wise:
USB - Most people who want to share a printer can do-so themselves or leave a desktop PC on. Same for sharing a HDD. It's a "nice to have" but realistically very rarely used by any group *but* the geeks and enthusiasts
HDMI output - Save that for your Raspberry Pi or similar media centre / file-server. You want to offer a router, you want it to be reliable, you don't want it doing everything under the sun and you don't want things most people haven't heard of, nor know how to setup
802.11ac wireless support - It's not even an official standard, plus the router is gonna be given away free by the ISP, so it can't cost an arm and a leg for what is currently minimal benefits. Maybe in a year or two.
USB3 - See the aforementioned about "USB" (USB2.0), there's just very little point
Small display on the device to see data usage - Adds too much cost for too little benefit, considering data caps are variable per-customer... easier to do from the Telecom website.
3G / 4G Failover - Could be done via USB, but again it's not something the average home user actually cares about. They can buy a router that does that if they *really* are that worried about their internet going down.
8 LAN ports - No for people who have bigger homes that are wired up, they're going to need a switch anyway, 8 ports isn't enough, so if 4 won't do them they should just buy a switch
PoE - No point, that's for enthusiasts who want to power phones or other networking kit, not for the masses
2.5" HDD support - Again, just get a USB caddy and hook it up to your RPi or similar
Rackmount gear - Home users don't rackmount their routers. Most small -> medium businesses don't even bother either.




Agree with hardware list though 2x FXS and probably double the flash memory.

As for what not to have in it - i disagree that it's not what consumers want. In my opinion:

For USB and NAS - Disagree. The average consumer is accustomed to storing things on external drives. The majority of users don't know how you can upgrade an internal hard drive. They do know however that they can load up all their media content on external hard drives, and take them around the place. This is what many do due to the smaller drive in their PC, and the fact the externals are 500gb to 2TB+ making them a cheap easy upgrade.
The average user also doesn't know how to share a drive over the network on their PC. They do understand however the concept of plugging in an external drive into a central device and having it automatically shared with all their devices. Including their shiny new smart TV, which is where DLNA comes in.
This user isn't a 'power user' that buys separate components for everything. They however aren't totally behind on technology and so adopt new technologies and features with their flashy marketing - samsung is a perfect example of this. They like the idea of all in one devices and they like how their shiny new smartphone and TV can access this content connected to the router. They would probably also buy into the idea of being able to access it remotely like a home "cloud storage" - it's not only geeks who use services like dropbox and icloud. In my opinion, these are the users who will buy the unit. The geeks already have a specialized setup and the people who just have basic needs are catered for by existing devices.

HDMI - Agreed. Simply unrealistic so no point in going into it.

Wireless AC - Agreed. Nice to have but would make it expensive and would be draft as you state. And that the majority of client devices can't take advantage of it atm. Leave it at dual band wireless N.

USB3 - Agreed. Not really necessary or likely due to costs of having to implement a separate chipset instead of it being built into the SoC. What would be nice would be 10-20MB/s throughput to it, which is realistic for an all in one device. 30MB/s would be nice but is unlikely given that it's not a dedicated NAS.

3G/4G failover - Disagree but for a different reason. Some users are confined to mobile data access only, so having WAN via USB modem is important. Failover isn't relevant to most users as you say, most would find this irrelevant to them or it would result in some sort of 3G bill shock. The telecom routers already have this so its likely it'll be included to tie in with their T-Stick branding.

8 LAN ports - Agreed. Buy a switch. Makes the device too big and the mainstream user loves the idea of making everything wireless. Plus people hardly find the concept of plugging in another device to give more ports foreign.

PoE - Agreed. this will not be used by 99% of the people that purchase this device unless there was some sort of PoE access point that you could buy along with it. And even then the uptake would probably be not that high.

2.5" HDD support - Agreed. I'm unsure if router SoCs have SATA controllers but i doubt this will be implemented due to cost, and that its another very niche idea, even if its sorta neat, USB is a better mainstream option.

Rackmount - Agree, but saying that, depending on the shape of it, it might not be too hard to put some holes on the side of it which some brackets could attach to.  My Silverstone HTPC case had this, and im sure the vast majority of users didnt even know why they were there, and an even tinier percentage actually used them.

It was clarified this device is not being given away free, it's a premium product which means $200-400 (my guess) or possibly cheaper if contracts are involved. The potential buyer of this device needs to see a visible value from it to buy in the form of features which make it better than other options. If you want high end gear with minimal extras and reliably made, look at business/commercial devices.
That's how i see it anyway.

ChillingSilence:
Now here's what we *dont* want:
DLNA - Just no... Save that for your RPi
Two WiFi SSID's - Too much setup for most users, and not really required if you can set per-device quotas or other restrictions like you can in Gargoyle
WiFi Spectrum analyzer - Too advanced for most home users, will only confuse them
Samba / bittorrent / ftp / other daemon - Just no, not for the average home user, power users can run that on something like their RPi
Mobile-specific WebUI - The standard one should be cut-down and simple enough to work just fine on a Cellphone
Smart alerts / reporting - Keep it simple, allow them to set Quotas. If the user hits it, that's it, they hit it, no need to try and configure email alerts and things coz then they've gotta setup an email server... too much for the average home user
VPN Host / Client - Too difficult to setup. Most home users will have their laptop setup by their office, so supporting passthrough is cool, but if you want to host a PPTP or OpenVPN connection you can easily do it from your windows / linux box and just port-forward

DLNA - mentioned above under USB/NAS already. But here i'll point to samsung again, specifically their allshare branding. That's DLNA.
Multi SSID - This is a standard feature of many devices already and isn't difficult to implement at a basic level. How comprehensive the feature is differs but i imagine some households might like the idea of a guest network (with client isolation) isolated from their home network. This also makes it relevant to small business, such as a cafe offering basic free wifi with a purchase perhaps.
Wifi Spectrum analyzer - Shouldn't be too hard to implement and could be useful for the ISP troubleshooting claims of poor wireless speeds. I think this is valuable in the days of congested 2.4 spectrum.
Samba - Yes for NAS reasons above. FTP probably not needed. bittorrent no, too resource intensive.
Mobile Specific Webui - if it auto scaled to a mobile device that would be the best, however its done, its valuable for users to be able to adjust and view settings from smaller screened devices.
VPN Host/Client. This one i think could be useful for some business and power users. Quite a few businesses operate a small network across a few offices. Telecom has a lot of business customers so i think theres some appeal there.


1603 posts

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  Reply # 826742 27-May-2013 23:52 Send private message

PaulBags: Reinvent the UFB network so that part of the bandwidth is actually part of the telephone system, rather than voip, so that telephones have absolute guaranteed connection like the current POTS/DSL separation.

They actually did design it like this, except that VoIP is now part of the telephone system... and should get the "guaranteed" priority. Was never absolute though, phone faults are so common that we need to move to fibre...




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

1603 posts

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+1 received by user: 63

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  Reply # 826745 28-May-2013 00:02 Send private message

KiwiSurfer:
ChillingSilence: This kind of a router *shouldn't* have a ton of features. That's not what the mass market needs, that's not what consumers want, it's what power-users want and they can already get it with minimal work.


Exactly what I was thinking, I'm really glad there are others thinking along the same lines. I'm often disappointed with the lack of decent choices for residential ADSL/Ethernet/802.11 routing gear and I think part of the problem is the fascination with adding useless features which introduces more problems than it solves. *grumbles* So I'm keen not to see that happen to this project which I'm very hopeful will actually produce a router I would be proud to buy and recommend to friends.

I agree with all your point with the sole exceptions listed below:-

1x FXS port for use with an analog phone


I'm Deaf so perhaps I'm missing the reason for the fascination of adding phone ports to an router. You will notice above I'm a pretty barebones sort of guy when it comes to routers. Is there a significant market of people who *need* their analogue phone? My observation is that people are migrating to using mobile as the main (or even only channel) for voice calls and switching to naked DSL for their wired connection. Is a phone port really needed I have to ask...?

The only places where VoIP seem to have gained traction is in workplaces where it makes sense to allocate a fixed VoIP phone to each worker and set up the SIP infrastructure to support the SIP phones. But in homes, it's quickly becoming the norm for each individual to have their own mobile phone. And given this device is targeted at the residential market I am dubious about this idea for adding VoIP, SIP, QOS for VoIP, etc for a feature that might not be something the typical residential consumer will use several years down the road.

Just food for this discussion -- if it ends up in the product I wouldn't loose any sleep over it as long as it's done right.

- James


Once your phone line gets replaced with fibre, having a couple of phone ports built in will be suprisingly important for lots of people, maybe there needs to be equipment supported for deaf people too though. However the phone won't work in a power outage like you would expect with a Telecom line, so people that didn't plug in a UPS won't be able to call the power to ask when the power is coming back on :) Everythings going to VoIP one way or another, even if its only on the link from router to phone company. Not everyone will know its VoIP, but they will complain if the QoS isn't setup right!




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

488 posts

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+1 received by user: 27


  Reply # 826760 28-May-2013 04:36 One person supports this post Send private message

Regarding the idea of dual frequency - I am assuming the suggest listed on page one is having simultaneous frequency like the Airport Extreme Base Station? it isn't this weird situation of broadcasting two frequencies but different base station names by default.




MacBook Pro 13.3" Mid-2012; iMac 3.4Ghz 27-inch (BTO) Late-2012; iPhone 5S 'Space Grey' (64GB); Airport Extreme Base Station 802.11ac; Draytek Vigor 130 VDSL2 Modem.


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  Reply # 826780 28-May-2013 08:10 2 people support this post Send private message

The point of suggesting USB (at least USB3) and DLNA is to begin to appeal to the mass market and to actually get them to use richer features available to them.

Samsung is a great example of where this has worked with their TV app on their smart tv. To a lot of people I know think watching on demand on your laptop/PC is geeky. Watching it on their TV is normal.

Yes you can use a Pi to do all that, but who's going to buy a Pi apart from geeks? How many people do you know that perform a backup to an external HDD and then leave it plugged into the PC? Plugging the HDD into the gateway which would probably be in a room would mean not only do you have the option for some automated backups but that the data is accessible from all the devices on the network.

DLNA in it's simplest form is a file server - it doesn't need to transcode but it does mean again that multiple devices are able to connect to the data through a medium that people are familiar with. Everyone has digital cameras (well lots of people anyway) but who wants to sit around a laptop to view them when they could be served to a nice big TV that even your octogenarian relatives can see.

I wonder how many people have a smart TV but don't use any smart features - I bet that figure is very high.

Yes, you could use your PC and leave it switched on all the time - that costs a lot more money to run than a home gateway, which would need to be on anyway.

By the way, yes I have a Pi with a HDD plugged in and use it as a media server (HDMI), NAS for backups (bit slow at 1GB/5mins) and an DLNA server for the other smart TV in the family room/iPads/phones etc.




Procrastination eventually pays off.

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  Reply # 826782 28-May-2013 08:11 Send private message

There is no way in hell FXS ports will be left off this. It is probably one of the most imprtant things a new gateway needs now with UFB, if not THE most important feature.
I find it ridiculous people aren't even considering it. Sure the ONT has FXS ports but a lot of RSP's aren't using this. I understand the provisioning issue has been fixed but it still seems there is compatibility issues with some soft switches.

297 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 37


  Reply # 826787 28-May-2013 08:36 Send private message

StarBlazer: I wonder how many people have a smart TV but don't use any smart features - I bet that figure is very high.


I bet you're right too.

Why is that?

I can tell you now, in the last 3 months I've been invited over to a different family friends house at least once a fortnight to setup their Smart TV on their WiFi because it's just too damn difficult. Most people just don't bother.

How many people currently use things like the Orcon Genius router to share a printer or USB HDD? I would be legitimately amazed if more than 1% were.

People simply just don't care enough, if it's too difficult like that. Adding those features might pick up a few new converts, but those who are curious will ask a tech friend about a *better* way of doing it rather than using their router.

483 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 85


  Reply # 826788 28-May-2013 08:36 Send private message

webwat:
1080p: To all the suggestions for DLNA/USB3/ESATA/media centre capabilities.

No. Just no.

Also, those suggesting you manage the router via MyTelecom or allow Telecom to remotely manage the router: how about a little security thought?


Well being a Telecom router it would make sense for them to include features that tie into their other services.

Remote management is possible on most routers already, but this suggestion implies that its going to be setup by default as secured to a gateway at the telecom helpdesk. There should obviously be an option to disable the remote management.

As a flow-on from the remote management (probably web based) incoming web connections that people want to be forwarded to internal servers (eg people that have a video surveillance system running on the LAN) should not be conflicting with the remote management, which should be setup on a different port.

Remote management should require an outgoing connection, either user interaction or the router seeking out updates at pre determined intervals. Then it won't need to be listening to a wan port for it.

1641 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 220

Subscriber

  Reply # 826792 28-May-2013 08:58 Send private message

ChillingSilence:
StarBlazer: I wonder how many people have a smart TV but don't use any smart features - I bet that figure is very high.


I bet you're right too.

Why is that?

I can tell you now, in the last 3 months I've been invited over to a different family friends house at least once a fortnight to setup their Smart TV on their WiFi because it's just too damn difficult. Most people just don't bother.

How many people currently use things like the Orcon Genius router to share a printer or USB HDD? I would be legitimately amazed if more than 1% were.

People simply just don't care enough, if it's too difficult like that. Adding those features might pick up a few new converts, but those who are curious will ask a tech friend about a *better* way of doing it rather than using their router.


Certainly one reason I may not bother is simply due to inadequate connection speed to make it a smooth and quick experience.








1063 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 121


  Reply # 826797 28-May-2013 09:04 Send private message

kawaii: Regarding the idea of dual frequency - I am assuming the suggest listed on page one is having simultaneous frequency like the Airport Extreme Base Station? it isn't this weird situation of broadcasting two frequencies but different base station names by default.


i meant just having the option to choose between the two, say if 2.4 is full or something. i think i got faster speeds on 5 when i used it too.













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