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714 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 832162 7-Jun-2013 11:21 Send private message

Sounds cool, but would need a big change in project scope/spec.
Surely a good DLNA interface with accessible settings and a usb3/esata port would be awesome extras in a modem/gateway. Having a full tv tuner box with recorder etc makes it impractical as a modem/gateway as well as pushing the price probably closer to $1000 than the price of a great modem/gateway which go from $100 on the cheap side to $500 if you really push the boat out.
Would much rather see time/effort on gigabit and a good chipset so the modem can be useful as a network fileshare.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 832166 7-Jun-2013 11:26 Send private message

I also "wow" a lot of people by controlling my TV, Home Theatre System / Receiver, XBMC on my RPi all from my Cellphone... but most of them are never going to bother doing that kind of a setup themselves. Streaming straight from my Cellphone from YouTube to the XBMC, or playing videos from my Fileserver, whatevs, it's not really that magical after you've done it, but adding that functionality in to a DSL *router*?

However it again begs the second question: Why buy this "all in one" device which is *not* going to be as cost-effective and replace my currently working router, with this?
Alternatively why would a new signup go with this router and pay for it when they can get a router for free or very cheap from DSE / Harvey Norman?

It's going to very quickly price itself out of existence... Most people are angry enough as-is about the cost of their connection without having to pay for an expensive router on top. I struggle to convince people to pay $130 for a solid DrayTek router let alone anything more...
Most people would probably prefer to simply buy an AppleTV or an Airport Express. I'm not an Apple fan myself but when I see people already using iTunes, you can't help but suggest the $150 device as a good solution to their wants (Wants, not needs).



BDFL
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  Reply # 832171 7-Jun-2013 11:30 2 people support this post Send private message

At home we have a router, two switches, one NAS, a dedicated Media Center HTPC and other bits. Some people have this, some people don't.

A company wants to provide an option to people who don't have this and is embarking on a first journey into integrating digital content, Internet and easy to use.

What's not to like about it? Sure there are considerations about final price and quality of services provided. But they won't create something without putting this in perspective.

I've seen one or two very vocal people against this concept, but hundreds of votes overall including in the features you don't like.




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  Reply # 832188 7-Jun-2013 11:40 Send private message

How about sell a solution rather than a single device?
This is the main hub, it has usb ports and DLNA and hosts content.
Then you can resell or manufacturer something like the WD live. This way you can have something which has a wide range of playback formats from a decent brand and can be positioned by the TV. This resolves this issue as well as unnecessary costs for an integrated solution in the modem avoided, and so on.
You could also cater for the tv tuner using the HD homerun or similar. A network streaming device with TV tuner which is compatible with the device above. However I can't see a HD home run getting freeview certification given its network streams won't be encrypted.
In any case you want something that's separate from the gateway and possible to evolve long term hopefully beyond sky's monopoly and into an IPTV over UFB future. For UFB the majority aren't going to want the ONT by their TV, and if you put video output in it, it'll only be able to be used there. So simply not practical.

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  Reply # 832190 7-Jun-2013 11:41 Send private message

I can see that the dlna stuff is going to be a bit of a support nightmare with all sorts of compatibility issues with different renderers and filetypes. How can telecom support something used to primarilly play media with a questionable state of being licensed or not.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 832194 7-Jun-2013 11:43 Send private message

Storage - yes, but it has to be super-easy to configure: we're talking about people who haven't figured out how to set this sort of thing up themselves

TV etc - personally no. For others it will have to be super cheap! Otherwise they'll wait for a buy-in deal from one of the dish providers

Relocatable antenna thingy - YES! as long as it is (once again) super-easy to use... "if you aren't getting a good signal (see image) then move antenna [relevant directions] until the image gets bigger/clearer/whatever-is-relevant" ie: think tv tuning with rabbit ears type directions ;)
Application: Our house is a lot of reinforced concrete, three storeys high, and the stairwell makes a good conduit space - but you don't install powerpoints or shelves in stairwells usually. This would be an ideal place for one of these

(sorry if not particularly coherent- headache)




Muddling along, being the most technical in the house, one of the oldest, and female .... hmmmmm gotta be some stereotypes busted in there somewhere.



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  Reply # 832195 7-Jun-2013 11:43 Send private message

richms: I can see that the dlna stuff is going to be a bit of a support nightmare with all sorts of compatibility issues with different renderers and filetypes. How can telecom support something used to primarilly play media with a questionable state of being licensed or not.


Agree with first bit but remember filetypes/codecs are moving towards a single point (H.264/H.265 and so on).

As for the second part, I think it's irrelevant. If that's the case then PCs and WD Live devices wouldn't be sold at all.





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  Reply # 832198 7-Jun-2013 11:45 Send private message

The devices are not sold by an ISP that relys on protection against customers piracy




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 832200 7-Jun-2013 11:46 Send private message

freitasm: Because they don't even know it's possible. I know people who go all "Wow!" when I tell we have our music in a NAS and play in the lounge as background for a slideshow with all our photos stored in the network.

Seriously, not one or two but a lot of people...



I'm expecting the same response when we have friends and family over to watch a movie now. "Wow! You can search your whole collection and choose one to watch without inserting the DVD? What kind of black magic is this?"

If Telecom can get this stuff working to a degree where my Dad can set it up without my help, then they'll be onto a sure fire winner.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 832211 7-Jun-2013 11:51 2 people support this post Send private message

freitasm: At home we have a router, two switches, one NAS, a dedicated Media Center HTPC and other bits. Some people have this, some people don't.

A company wants to provide an option to people who don't have this and is embarking on a first journey into integrating digital content, Internet and easy to use.

What's not to like about it? Sure there are considerations about final price and quality of services provided. But they won't create something without putting this in perspective.

I've seen one or two very vocal people against this concept, but hundreds of votes overall including in the features you don't like.

Just call me the voice of reason.

Also, you travel light, that's nothing... Only one dedicated media PC?

No, users who see that's available are naturally wow'd by it, but don't go out and get it for themselves. Why?

Cost.

It's too expensive as-is, coz it's not that difficult to setup. Most people don't even bother with $150 for an Apple TV let alone everything else under the sun... They don't bother because of the cost. I'm not an Apple fan but there's hardly a device out there that's easier to setup compared with Apple TV or an Airport Express.

freitasm:
richms: I can see that the dlna stuff is going to be a bit of a support nightmare with all sorts of compatibility issues with different renderers and filetypes. How can telecom support something used to primarilly play media with a questionable state of being licensed or not.


Agree with first bit but remember filetypes/codecs are moving towards a single point (H.264/H.265 and so on).

As for the second part, I think it's irrelevant. If that's the case then PCs and WD Live devices wouldn't be sold at all.


Not specifically true. There's both the AVI container which still hangs around a lot, MP4 container, Matroska, WMV... Then there's the individual codecs you can have in them, like h.263 / XviD / DivX / h.264 / up-n-coming h.265 / Theora / VP8 / VP9 / VC-1 / Windows Media Video. Pplus audio codecs... plus subtitle support for embedded subtitles and external subtitle files.
The AVI container codec is fast dying, but it's nowhere near gone

Yeah I think some manager has gone "Hey this is a good idea having everything all in one" without giving any thought to reasonings behind why it hasn't previously been done before. There's MANY good reasons why it hasn't been done.

It's just a shame to see what could have been such a great project being "run away with". A cost-effective, reliable router (Both hardware and firmware), that is very easy to use, yet still packs some solid features, that will appeal to the *masses*. This fast seems to be heading towards a "Expensive device with everything under the sun that can't possibly have an easy to use interface to handle all the settings that it needs to handle which immediately also makes you question the reliability of it from both a hardware and software perspective if they're jamming so much in to it.

Yes, nice idea in theory, not in practice.

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Geek
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  Reply # 832232 7-Jun-2013 12:05 Send private message

With the idea of a digital tuner no one has seemed to touch a HD Homerun type solution with the tuner installed in the modem and let the device playing the content handle recording/time shifting removing the need for the HDD (which still isnt a bad idea but 2.5 size drive is better the 3.5 for space) this could actually be quite cool scrap the hdmi port and just send it over the network considering everything seems to be going that way anyway ethernet cable is much more capable than hdmi long term aswell so good future proofing there as well.

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  Reply # 832246 7-Jun-2013 12:14 Send private message

ChillingSilence:
freitasm: At home we have a router, two switches, one NAS, a dedicated Media Center HTPC and other bits. Some people have this, some people don't.

A company wants to provide an option to people who don't have this and is embarking on a first journey into integrating digital content, Internet and easy to use.

What's not to like about it? Sure there are considerations about final price and quality of services provided. But they won't create something without putting this in perspective.

I've seen one or two very vocal people against this concept, but hundreds of votes overall including in the features you don't like.

Just call me the voice of reason.

Also, you travel light, that's nothing... Only one dedicated media PC?

No, users who see that's available are naturally wow'd by it, but don't go out and get it for themselves. Why?

Cost.

It's too expensive as-is, coz it's not that difficult to setup. Most people don't even bother with $150 for an Apple TV let alone everything else under the sun... They don't bother because of the cost. I'm not an Apple fan but there's hardly a device out there that's easier to setup compared with Apple TV or an Airport Express.

freitasm:
richms: I can see that the dlna stuff is going to be a bit of a support nightmare with all sorts of compatibility issues with different renderers and filetypes. How can telecom support something used to primarilly play media with a questionable state of being licensed or not.


Agree with first bit but remember filetypes/codecs are moving towards a single point (H.264/H.265 and so on).

As for the second part, I think it's irrelevant. If that's the case then PCs and WD Live devices wouldn't be sold at all.


Not specifically true. There's both the AVI container which still hangs around a lot, MP4 container, Matroska, WMV... Then there's the individual codecs you can have in them, like h.263 / XviD / DivX / h.264 / up-n-coming h.265 / Theora / VP8 / VP9 / VC-1 / Windows Media Video. Pplus audio codecs... plus subtitle support for embedded subtitles and external subtitle files.
The AVI container codec is fast dying, but it's nowhere near gone

Yeah I think some manager has gone "Hey this is a good idea having everything all in one" without giving any thought to reasonings behind why it hasn't previously been done before. There's MANY good reasons why it hasn't been done.

It's just a shame to see what could have been such a great project being "run away with". A cost-effective, reliable router (Both hardware and firmware), that is very easy to use, yet still packs some solid features, that will appeal to the *masses*. This fast seems to be heading towards a "Expensive device with everything under the sun that can't possibly have an easy to use interface to handle all the settings that it needs to handle which immediately also makes you question the reliability of it from both a hardware and software perspective if they're jamming so much in to it.

Yes, nice idea in theory, not in practice.

Counter point: what if there is a large portion of people who simply don't know this is possible? Or if they do, they assume it's difficult. Market to Telecoms large customer base with an easy to set up device that they can plug a hard drive into, and have play on various devices across the network, and you could have a winner. They can send out a flyer in the bill or include it with intouch news flyer.

Codec support with a non transcoding DLNA server becomes an issue for the end device such as a smart TV or media player. For reasons above I'm eliminating the idea of the device having its own video out. But these days I've yet to see a smart TV or media player without a good range of format support. The user can upgrade if this is an issue for them.

Also DLNA wouldn't be every feature under the sun. Most medium to high end routers have this.

Lastly you need to sell features, not tech specs. Who of Telecoms customer base is going to upgrade to a more expensive modem than their current one if it doesn't do anything more? They shouldn't be selling unreliable devices in the first place, and they have a higher grade business modem and gateway already. This device needs to have a few extra features that you seem to strongly be against for it to be successful or it'll disappear from the market in a matter of months due to poor uptake.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 832247 7-Jun-2013 12:14 2 people support this post Send private message

eXDee: However I can't see a HD home run getting freeview certification given its network streams won't be encrypted.

Seriously this is a requirement of being Freeview instead of just DVB-T!!!

Anyway back OT.

I am a tech geek who has no money to spend.  Everything I buy has been very carefully considered for ROI.  My setup which is probably greater than most in home set ups is;  Vodafone(TCL) modem to Giga switch to Wireless Router (b/g not n or ac).  My network has Ras Pi running RaspBMC - two Samsung TVs (one smarter than the other) and a Blu-Ray all with wired connections - plus laptop, iPads/iPod and Galaxy S2.

I've spent the last 2 years dreaming of HTPC - out of my price bracket hence the Pi.  I'd love a full NAS again out of my price bracket - another reason for the Pi because at least I can store my stuff centrally for all the devices.

If Telecom were to offer me a subsidised home gateway that has a built in drive (no need for the WD Hub) with DLNA/basic file server (no need for the NAS or the Pi which would be moved somewhere useful) that has a Giga Lan (re-provision the switch) in a single box (no need for multiple sockets/power supplies) then I'm in.

Nobody said the content has to be illegal.  For the average Joe public they have PCs and phones and cameras - none are backed up and mostly their content will be viewed on small screens.  Giving them a very simple solution that will enable them to drop their content onto the central drive and look at their photos and home videos on a large screen (stream to TV with DLNA) that would be a revolution.

Yes the solution has to be smart and simple to use to get public buy in.  Telecom could (with the help of people like us) build a Wiki for all the smart features and how to get the best out of it in the easiest manner.

I can do most of this with a Pi, but honestly who is going to buy one unless you are a geek?  Admittedly a WD hub can do this, but non-techy people fear speaking to Dick Smith et al because they think they will either look/sound stupid or be sold something that is too complex - even if they know what to ask for.

I'm still not convinced about the tuner (unless it is like a HD home run in which case yes please) but applaud Telecom for trying something new for their consumers. 

No, I don't work for Telecom and this is only my opinion.  Debate is good.




Procrastination eventually pays off.

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  Reply # 832249 7-Jun-2013 12:19 One person supports this post Send private message

But if they want freeview approval they make network stuff really hard and pointless with encrypted recordings etc.
I feel the tuner etc belong in a settop box, not a router which should be an out of site type item.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 832262 7-Jun-2013 12:38 2 people support this post Send private message

My personal view as a geek and not anything about my employer as I am not involved per-se in this project apart from keeping an eye on this is that having the internal/external storage is a must IMHO.

If the device had a eSATA port + space inside for a 2.5" disk and have DLNA/Twonky support in the box and we would be onto a winner.

I believe having the DVB-T Tuner / HDMI port all in the one box is probably the wrong path as others have said many people have Freeview/sky/HDHomerun/Pi etc.  So keep the TV & Video in a separate box so that can be upgraded as needed when 4K / MkV or whatever new TV/Video standard comes out.

Making it fully managed and backup to Dropbox or similar cloud storage backup solution with the traffic being zero rated as an "paid for" option I think is the future. With the obvious caveats around storage of legitimate content only that you already own and the ISP is not held accountable for any content. That would be what I would give to my parents and say "just make sure you save your photos/documents/paid for music/.. onto this place and we will know they will be backed up automagically in the kloud Laughing".  So then if the house catches fire or the HDD dies then it can all still exist somewhere that the end-user can retrieve without too much drama.

Again my views, not those of my employer.




I work for Telecom Spark, but as always my views are my own.

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