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  Reply # 832264 7-Jun-2013 12:40 One person supports this post Send private message

Integrated HDD: Interesting concept but I'm not sold on it being a good idea. It's adding a layer of complexity a modem/router probably doesn't need by moving more into the media server realm. Then they'll be ongoing support for failing drives etc.

Integrated TV Tuner: Again interesting concept but again not sold on it - I see a few problems with it. Would it be one tuner serving one TV or multiple tuners able to serve multiple sets? How many tuners should there be - or would this be catered for by bigger, better faster, stronger models? Would it be capable of time shifting and/or recording programs (probably not without an integrated HDD)? How many channels should it be able to time shift/record. Then there's the interface. Needs to be simple but effective. Needs to have high WAF. What will the control mechanisms for changing channel be if you're watching VIA and HDMI cable etc?

External Aerial/jack: Great to have!

Combined, the first two items above would be moving the device firmly into a media server arena, which is not in itself a problem, but the associated installation and support costs need to be factored in as well as the initial outlay for the consumer.

The point has been made that a lot of people won't have lots of DLNA devices etc - these same people are also not going to be able to afford the outlay required for a complex piece of machinery. They probably also don't want to be running lots of cables through/under the house (especially HDMI) when they can have aerials close to and an STB in (if the TV's don't have built in tuners) each room.

On the other hand I'd also argue that having an integrated system would be be good from a consumer point of view and, as we've seen with the convergence of other technologies over time, it probably will come. My question would be - would people actually be able to use it? There would have to be a great deal of R&D put into making a simple, effective interface with a high WAF. There's a lot more to consider than just making the world's most fancy whiz-bang machine... If it's crippled through bad interface (or locked down interface like Tivo) uptake just won't happen. Same with restricting market availability - once again, like Tivo.

For now they'd be better off having having a modem/router sticking to its knitting but have several USB inputs and a decent amount of (8+) gigabit capable ports.




Chuck Norris has abolished the periodic table of elements. The only element he recognises is the element of surprise!

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  Reply # 832268 7-Jun-2013 12:49 2 people support this post Send private message

Sounds overly complicated. It's supposed to be a modem/router not a media device. Personally don't see the point and would prefer modemy things were done well, or things related to the internet connection.




Previously known as psycik

NextPVR Based HTPC:

2 x HVR3000 - DVB-S - Freeview, HVR3000 - DVB-T Freeview|HD, Nova-T 500 - Dual Freeview|HD, Digital Coax --> Yamaha RX-v540, 8600GT --> Samsung LA46A650D via HDMI
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  Reply # 832269 7-Jun-2013 12:51 Send private message

If people are going to spend a bit of cash on this device they aren't going to want to go buying a bunch of 'client
devices as well to go with the media stuff that might be on it.

Keeping it all integrated in a single box just has to be the best way to go. Look at that NAS that QNAP came out with that has an HDMI and media center on it. Ideal! People can get one unit for home NAS and be able to view movies at no extra cost.
Yes most 'smart' media devices have some form of DLNA support but it doesn't seem to be very standardized with some devices supporting some formats etc.

This router should have 2 2.5" drive bays along with eSATA or USB3 for extra storage. It should then have proper NAS capabilities as well as proper media center capabilites. If an RPi can display 1080p then this super router can be equipped with a capable CPU to do the same. I shouldn't say 'router' either. This is a 'Home Gateway'.

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  Reply # 832276 7-Jun-2013 13:04 One person supports this post Send private message

chevrolux: If people are going to spend a bit of cash on this device they aren't going to want to go buying a bunch of 'client
devices as well to go with the media stuff that might be on it.

Keeping it all integrated in a single box just has to be the best way to go. Look at that NAS that QNAP came out with that has an HDMI and media center on it. Ideal! People can get one unit for home NAS and be able to view movies at no extra cost.
Yes most 'smart' media devices have some form of DLNA support but it doesn't seem to be very standardized with some devices supporting some formats etc.

This router should have 2 2.5" drive bays along with eSATA or USB3 for extra storage. It should then have proper NAS capabilities as well as proper media center capabilites. If an RPi can display 1080p then this super router can be equipped with a capable CPU to do the same. I shouldn't say 'router' either. This is a 'Home Gateway'.

How do you resolve the issue of location then?
Newer more modern homes have a comms cabinet in them. The modem sits in here and all the phone jacks terminate there too. The UFB ONT would go here too. You can't run video output from here, it's simply unfeasible.

So with suggesting for this to have video output on it, it means it must go by the TV. And i'm not sure about you but my ETP for phone jack isn't near there. Or is a dedicated jack for DSL from a master splitter. And i certainly don't want a UFB ONT there either, I don't want that box permanently attached to the wall in the lounge. For DSL, I'd estimate the majority of people with phone jacks by the TV are horribly installed ones put there by sky. We do not want to encourage use of these jacks for DSL either.

A NAS can be positioned anywhere practical and by a TV makes sense if it's on media/htpc duty as well, but a modem and gateway has to be tied to where the fibre or phone line comes in.

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  Reply # 832281 7-Jun-2013 13:12 One person supports this post Send private message

eXDee:
A NAS can be positioned anywhere practical and by a TV makes sense if it's on media/htpc duty as well, but a modem and gateway has to be tied to where the fibre or phone line comes in.


Personally I don;t see the point of a honking great 4+ bay NAS sitting next to my TV...I'd rather have that somewhere cool and dark.  With low power clients next to the TV - not sure the reasoning of the NAS companies for doing that.

Maybe make your modem into a NAS, but I don't see a modem needing to do media centre duties, for both the reason I stated (big storage machine near tv) and the reason you stated, that a bunch people now are hiding their network gear away, so it's not situated near a tv.





Previously known as psycik

NextPVR Based HTPC:

2 x HVR3000 - DVB-S - Freeview, HVR3000 - DVB-T Freeview|HD, Nova-T 500 - Dual Freeview|HD, Digital Coax --> Yamaha RX-v540, 8600GT --> Samsung LA46A650D via HDMI
Clients:
Popcorn Hour A-100, 1xATV2, 1xATV3, Roku3
Windows 7 Ultimate Host
3x2TB, 1x3TB + 1x1.5TB using DriveBender, VMWare Workstation 10 with 1xW7, 2xW2k3 1xUbuntu 11.10 Desktop, 1xWHS2011, Plex

UnblockUS - Unblock your freedom

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  Reply # 832294 7-Jun-2013 13:57 Send private message

HDMI and freeview tuner are both terrible ideas. A lot of cheap routers now include a DLNA server, so it shouldn't cost too much to implement & won't be a burden on those who don't want to use it. A slot of a 2.5" SATA drive could be a good idea, but only if it it can be done without pushing the price up too much.

I think a lot of people would use the 2.5" drive capability to move all of their pirated videos from their laptop to a central storage location, and a lot of them will have either a smart TV or a games console or DLNA capable media device already connected to their PC. The problem will come if Sky & TVNZ release their death grip on content & Netflix & Hulu enter the NZ market - everyone will just stream their media direct to their TV over the internet.

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  Reply # 832298 7-Jun-2013 14:09 2 people support this post Send private message

I like the idea of a LAN based TV tuner, with an app for smart devices as well as desktops. Be handy for watching TV in bed or what ever.

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  Reply # 832299 7-Jun-2013 14:10 Send private message

chevrolux:Keeping it all integrated in a single box just has to be the best way to go. Look at that NAS that QNAP came out with that has an HDMI and media center on it. Ideal! People can get one unit for home NAS and be able to view movies at no extra cost.


Have you seen the price of that - over $1000 without drives - probably closer to $2000 by the time you've finished with 4 2TB WD black drives!  This is not a viable cost effective solution for the vast majority of people especially me (sorry if I'm looking at the wrong model TS-469L).




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  Reply # 832306 7-Jun-2013 14:45 Send private message

greven: The problem will come if Sky & TVNZ release their death grip on content & Netflix & Hulu enter the NZ market - everyone will just stream their media direct to their TV over the internet.


Netflix has been over this several times - it's not the content keeping them out of NZ, it's the bandwidth.  They simply don't see how they can deliver their service to a country over a single transpacific cable with 250ms+ latency when the majority of the country is lucky to get 8mb/s.

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  Reply # 832308 7-Jun-2013 14:47 Send private message

eXDee: 
Counter point: what if there is a large portion of people who simply don't know this is possible? Or if they do, they assume it's difficult. Market to Telecoms large customer base with an easy to set up device that they can plug a hard drive into, and have play on various devices across the network, and you could have a winner. They can send out a flyer in the bill or include it with intouch news flyer.

Codec support with a non transcoding DLNA server becomes an issue for the end device such as a smart TV or media player. For reasons above I'm eliminating the idea of the device having its own video out. But these days I've yet to see a smart TV or media player without a good range of format support. The user can upgrade if this is an issue for them.

Also DLNA wouldn't be every feature under the sun. Most medium to high end routers have this.

Lastly you need to sell features, not tech specs. Who of Telecoms customer base is going to upgrade to a more expensive modem than their current one if it doesn't do anything more? They shouldn't be selling unreliable devices in the first place, and they have a higher grade business modem and gateway already. This device needs to have a few extra features that you seem to strongly be against for it to be successful or it'll disappear from the market in a matter of months due to poor uptake.


How many non-techie friends do you have gone and purchased a router though, and not used a free one their ISP supplies? Lets be honest, us Kiwis can be a pretty *cheap* bunch at times, routers is one of those areas.
Trying to convince somebody to spend over $500 (It'll easily be over $500 with the proposed feature-sets) vs a free router and $150 for an AppleTV... I'll give you 3 guesses which one they'll pick every single time! ;-)

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  Reply # 832309 7-Jun-2013 14:47 One person supports this post Send private message

chevrolux:
Keeping it all integrated in a single box just has to be the best way to go. Look at that NAS that QNAP came out with that has an HDMI and media center on it. Ideal! People can get one unit for home NAS and be able to view movies at no extra cost.
Yes most 'smart' media devices have some form of DLNA support but it doesn't seem to be very standardized with some devices supporting some formats etc.

This router should have 2 2.5" drive bays along with eSATA or USB3 for extra storage. It should then have proper NAS capabilities as well as proper media center capabilites. If an RPi can display 1080p then this super router can be equipped with a capable CPU to do the same. I shouldn't say 'router' either. This is a 'Home Gateway'.


Well heck, why don't they just mod up some HP Home Servers then?  $800 or so (can get them cheap on bulk order I'm sure) and stick some router equipment on a card.

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  Reply # 832310 7-Jun-2013 14:49 2 people support this post Send private message

Kyanar:
greven: The problem will come if Sky & TVNZ release their death grip on content & Netflix & Hulu enter the NZ market - everyone will just stream their media direct to their TV over the internet.


Netflix has been over this several times - it's not the content keeping them out of NZ, it's the bandwidth.  They simply don't see how they can deliver their service to a country over a single transpacific cable with 250ms+ latency when the majority of the country is lucky to get 8mb/s.

Meh that's total rubbish.
YouTube aside from it's local / Australian caches are also from the US. 720p video streams from YouTube are usually around 2mbps, and buffered video doesn't rely on latency in the *slightest*, that's why it's buffered!
Completed and utter lies from them.

BTW - 75% of the countrys homes are in Chrous 10mbps+ zones. Just saying, that's still 3 million people...

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  Reply # 832312 7-Jun-2013 14:57 Send private message

ChillingSilence: 
How many non-techie friends do you have gone and purchased a router though, and not used a free one their ISP supplies? Lets be honest, us Kiwis can be a pretty *cheap* bunch at times, routers is one of those areas.


Tell me about it! When I told my wife what we paid for our current router (Airport Extreme), she freaked! I didn't have the heart to tell her that as far as routers go, this was by no means the most expensive model I could've gone for :-)

Lucky I didn't tell her that the AE was only part of the equation, and forgot to mention the DrayTek modem that partners with it. No doubt she would've commented that the cost of the DrayTek was what she was expecting for the entire modem/router package.

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  Reply # 832314 7-Jun-2013 15:00 Send private message

dclegg:
ChillingSilence: 
How many non-techie friends do you have gone and purchased a router though, and not used a free one their ISP supplies? Lets be honest, us Kiwis can be a pretty *cheap* bunch at times, routers is one of those areas.


Tell me about it! When I told my wife what we paid for our current router (Airport Extreme), she freaked! I didn't have the heart to tell her that as far as routers go, this was by no means the most expensive model I could've gone for :-)

Lucky I didn't tell her that the AE was only part of the equation, and forgot to mention the DrayTek modem that partners with it. No doubt she would've commented that the cost of the DrayTek was what she was expecting for the entire modem/router package.


That's fantastic, my wife is *exactly* the same! :D

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  Reply # 832322 7-Jun-2013 15:12 Send private message

ChillingSilence:
Kyanar:
greven: The problem will come if Sky & TVNZ release their death grip on content & Netflix & Hulu enter the NZ market - everyone will just stream their media direct to their TV over the internet.


Netflix has been over this several times - it's not the content keeping them out of NZ, it's the bandwidth.  They simply don't see how they can deliver their service to a country over a single transpacific cable with 250ms+ latency when the majority of the country is lucky to get 8mb/s.

Meh that's total rubbish.
YouTube aside from it's local / Australian caches are also from the US. 720p video streams from YouTube are usually around 2mbps, and buffered video doesn't rely on latency in the *slightest*, that's why it's buffered!
Completed and utter lies from them.

BTW - 75% of the countrys homes are in Chrous 10mbps+ zones. Just saying, that's still 3 million people...


Yeah I hate seeing that argument, I don't see it stacking up.  I have very few problems with netflix + other usage on a 4mpbs connection and 150gb of data.  Takes a bit of management but it's plenty big enough.






Previously known as psycik

NextPVR Based HTPC:

2 x HVR3000 - DVB-S - Freeview, HVR3000 - DVB-T Freeview|HD, Nova-T 500 - Dual Freeview|HD, Digital Coax --> Yamaha RX-v540, 8600GT --> Samsung LA46A650D via HDMI
Clients:
Popcorn Hour A-100, 1xATV2, 1xATV3, Roku3
Windows 7 Ultimate Host
3x2TB, 1x3TB + 1x1.5TB using DriveBender, VMWare Workstation 10 with 1xW7, 2xW2k3 1xUbuntu 11.10 Desktop, 1xWHS2011, Plex

UnblockUS - Unblock your freedom

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