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Topic # 150668 30-Jul-2014 08:14 Send private message

My osteo (who's excellent) has recommended acupuncture (dry needling) to help reduce inflammation in an injury that keeps flaring up. Anyone tried it? Does it work?




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  Reply # 1098328 30-Jul-2014 08:18 Send private message

Yes and no, it depends on you. Even if it is a Placebo effect it has still worked.  




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.



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  Reply # 1098330 30-Jul-2014 08:22 Send private message

A quick google suggests it can help control inflammation, according to research not just quacks. Might be worth a shot.




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  Reply # 1098331 30-Jul-2014 08:23 One person supports this post Send private message

Placebo effect




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  Reply # 1098332 30-Jul-2014 08:32 Send private message

I'm not sure about the inflammation side of things. I have certainly had it to relieve muscular pain around the inflammation site (muscles tense to try and minimize joint pain).
Trust me, anything to avoid surgery is worth a crack.




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  Reply # 1098335 30-Jul-2014 08:40 Send private message

I'm a believer in accupuncture.  I was a heavy smoker (40 a day) and became a non-smoker in two weeks.  That was 30 years ago and have never felt the urge to smoke since.  My wife too had back pain and accupuncture fixed that.

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  Reply # 1098338 30-Jul-2014 08:46 3 people support this post Send private message

First of all, Dry Needling is not the same as Acupuncture

Dry Needling is useful for the release of trigger points in muscles. Dry needling can be applied to any muscle anywhere in the body. As a health professional, I use it a lot and have a lot of success with it. It's painful at the time but it beats a 30 minute deep tissue massage when you can achieve the same result with 5 minutes of dry needling.

I also practice Acupuncture. This is useful for some people and not so good for other. Acupuncture is limited to the acupuncture points that we have around the body. Most health professionals will use it mainly for pain relief but can be used in other situations.

It's a treatment that had stood the test of time and is definitely not a placebo.

The results of aucpuncture comes down to the skills of the practitioner  on choosing the right points for the patient and the duration of the treatment.

Hope that helps



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  Reply # 1098347 30-Jul-2014 09:00 Send private message

Don't tell me it's painful! That makes me less likely to go get it done!




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  Reply # 1098351 30-Jul-2014 09:04 2 people support this post Send private message


this is one of the best sites for information about medicine when considering 'alternative' options
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/

here is the acupuncture section. Very thorough.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/acupuncture/ 

The most important part
"It is important to evaluate the literature as a whole to see what pattern emerges. The pattern that does emerge is most consistent with a null effect – that acupuncture does not work. Controlled clinical trials of actual acupuncture (uncontrolled trials should only be considered preliminary and are never definitive) typically have three arms: a control group with no intervention or standard treatment, a sham-acupuncture group (needles are placed but in the “wrong” locations or not deep enough), and a real acupuncture group. Most of such trials, for any intervention including pain, nausea, addiction, and others, show no difference between the sham-acupuncture group and the true acupuncture group. They typically do show improved outcome in both acupuncture groups over the no-intervention group, but this is typical of all clinical trials and is clearly due to placebo-type effects. Such comparisons should be considered unblinded because patients knew whether they were getting acupuncture (sham or real). The lack of any advantage of real- over sham-acupuncture means that it does not matter where the needles are placed. This is completely consistent with the hypothesis that any perceived benefits from acupuncture are non-specific effects from the process of getting the treatment, and not due to any alleged specific effects of acupuncture. In other words, there is no evidence that acupuncture is manipulating chi or anything else, that the meridians have any basis in reality, or that the specific process of acupuncture makes any difference. More recent trials have attempted to improve the blinded control of such trials by using acupuncture needles that are contained in an opaque sheath. The acupuncturist depresses a plunger, and neither they nor the patient knows if the needle is actually inserted. The pressure from the sheath itself would conceal any sensation from the needle going in. So far, such studies show no difference between those who received needle insertion and those who did not – supporting the conclusion that acupuncture has no detectable specific health effect. Taken as a whole, the pattern of the acupuncture literature follows one with which scientists are very familiar: the more tightly controlled the study the smaller the effect, and the best-controlled trials are negative. This pattern is highly predictive of a null-effect – that there is no actual effect from acupuncture."





My favourite joke on this by Tim Minchin:

Q: What do you call "Alternative Medicine" that has been proven to work in properly controlled scientific studies?  
A: Medicine
laughing




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  Reply # 1098354 30-Jul-2014 09:05 Send private message

Compared  to the pain you would experience in a 30 minute deep tissue massage, its not that bad. I would say it would be 3-4/10 on the pain scale when the knot is released in the muscle

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  Reply # 1098357 30-Jul-2014 09:08 Send private message

Osteopath
Acupunture
Chiropractor

All 3 have placebo effects only. 





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  Reply # 1098360 30-Jul-2014 09:11 Send private message

The Sci-ence webcomic series Ghosts of Woo, especially part two, generally explains my opinion of Acupuncture and pseudo-science in general. It does get a bit "preachy" but it is a good representation of a more scientific opinion of acupuncture. The additional comment below the comics add more explanation and narration beyond the comics themselves.



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  Reply # 1098364 30-Jul-2014 09:20 Send private message

nakedmolerat: Osteopath
Acupunture
Chiropractor

All 3 have placebo effects only. 


IMHO osteopathy isn't just a placebo. They work with muscles and bones, stretching muscles, putting things back in place. My wife has some semi-serious condition with her back, since she's been seeing a good Osteo she's much better. He said he didn't know if he could help, but he did. He's done great things for me as well, on the odd occasion I hurt myself he fixes me up. I've tried waiting and seeing if it'll fix itself, I've tried going in immediately when I hurt myself, the recovery time is much shorter when I see my osteo.

Chiro's though, in, crack, out, they've never done a bit of good for me.




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  Reply # 1098394 30-Jul-2014 09:40 One person supports this post Send private message

Had a physiotherapist do dry needling on me last year when I hurt my neck/shoulders. Seemed very effective.

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  Reply # 1098400 30-Jul-2014 09:49 Send private message

Lias: Had a physiotherapist do dry needling on me last year when I hurt my neck/shoulders. Seemed very effective.


Yes, the placebo affect is well documented.

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  Reply # 1098447 30-Jul-2014 10:39 One person supports this post Send private message

For more references, look at Cochrane Review

http://www.cochrane.org/search/site/acupuncture


A.


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