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  Reply # 1658782 27-Oct-2016 10:31 Send private message quote this post

My father was a school teacher - only just.  It had been his goal to be a teacher, he was an academic, somewhat socially awkward and eccentric I suppose.  First job was at Otago Boys.  Teachers had to wear academic regalia in those days. He was very tall and skinny, with thick round glasses, and long nose, and looked extremely bizarre and out of place.  I'm assuming that many of the boys were boarders, from farms in Otago and Southland, from good sturdy rugby stock etc, totally gobsmacked by the appearance of the master placed in front of them - and they were merciless.  He was teaching Latin and French - probably not popular subjects. I understand that they tormented him, he retaliated by beating them with the cane, that made them mock him more, it devolved into such a debacle that the headmaster had to intervene, suggesting that if he wanted to continue with a teaching career, then another school in another town would be a good idea from which to start again.  He did, and managed to go through his entire teaching career without ever using the cane again.
I'd wondered if he'd exaggerated his story about his worst failure, but I've actually met an ex-pupil of the school who'd been in his class, who confirmed everything, right down to the nickname they tormented him with.

 

I was beaten (strapped) at primary school for no reason a few times, only once for good reason - if there's ever a good reason to beat children.  Thing was then, people/parents didn't often question teachers, it was also typical that for many of my friends, if they'd been strapped at school and their parents found out, they'd likely be on the receiving end of an even more severe beating by their fathers - double punishment.  So you didn't tell your parents - you tended to put up with it.


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  Reply # 1658787 27-Oct-2016 10:42 Send private message quote this post

robjg63:

 

I think the problem is the huge amounts of extra sugar they pour into drinks (and some other products) to make them more 'appealing'.

 

There was an NZ tv show about food etc a few years back (Whats really in our food? - I think it was).

 

They got some common brands of 'fruit juice' - they all contained added extra sugar.

 

They modified some of the juices to reduce the sugar content by about 50%.

 

In taste tests with kids at a school, most preferred the lower sugar version of the products.

 

You get used to sugar and it becomes a bit addictive. I used to have 4 tsp of sugar in a cup of tea when I was up to my mid 20s. Likewise coffee. I cut it out completely and sugar in those drinks seems to taste wrong now. Dont get me wrong - I LOVE cakes and sweet things from time to time - as a treat - but you are in the hands of the manufacturers if the products come from a factory.

 

 

 

 

You can probably tell that I'm pretty much a zealot against added sugar.  But I'm also totally opposed to a "sugar tax" as a solution, it's just not workable for so many reasons.

 

OTOH I'm baffled by the stupidity of some people.  Products like that Lewis Road chocolate milk which attained such cult status that people were driving from supermarket to supermarket to secure supplies for their kids.  IIRC something like 9 teaspoons of added sugar per small bottle.  If you as an adult - asked for 9 teaspoons of sugar to be added to a takeaway flat white, or stirred 9 spoons in yourself while you were sitting with friends, they'd probably say something mocking you. Not with Lewis Road chocolate milk - that's a great "treat" for children - apparently.  

 

 


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  Reply # 1658790 27-Oct-2016 10:46 Send private message quote this post

Back to sugar, if you read the labels practically everything that isn't in the produce section (and even some of that) has sugar added. As a lame dairy-consuming vegetarian, I am lazy and often eat processed foods. I check the labels to make sure no meat products are snuck into them, which seems to be another obsession here. But there is sugar in absolutely everything, every packet, tin, carton, whatever. I don't particularly like sweet things and I have never added sugar to anything other than a refreshing summer drink I make with fresh limes. For the rest, I am sure I am already getting more than any sugar I could ever need just from the regular food I eat. 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1658804 27-Oct-2016 11:07 Send private message quote this post

It's actually very hard to read the labels, let alone understand them.  Then it's still not clear science, that sugar at moderate level of intake, is as bad as some say.

 

No doubt there's a lot of "other" lifestyle factors involved, and it's also nearly impossible to conduct any population study to add to epidemiological evidence, as unless strictly monitored (which will directly influence participant behaviour), you're stuck with studies based on "self reporting" where people will always state that they smoke/drink/eat watch TV less, and exercise more than they really do.

 

Common sense is needed.  LOL - I'm a pessimist on that.


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  Reply # 1658828 27-Oct-2016 11:35 Send private message quote this post

Next up, salt in cereals : ).

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  Reply # 1658846 27-Oct-2016 11:47 Send private message quote this post

Some foods pick up a slight metallic tang from stainless steel surfaces in processing plants.  You mask this taste with a bit of added salt. Where a slightly salty flavour is undesirable you add a bit of sugar to offset the salt.

 

If you see sugar and salt added to processed foods in similar amounts in similar amounts (e.g. sequential in ingredients list) there is a good chance it's flavour correction.





Mike

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  Reply # 1658854 27-Oct-2016 11:53 Send private message quote this post

What about the sugar in fruit argument? Some say bad, some say its fine, but surely eating food with added sugar plus plenty of fruit all adds up to the same thing, too much sugar, zero added sugar and eating fruit should be ok?


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  Reply # 1658878 27-Oct-2016 12:00 Send private message quote this post

Pumpedd:

 

I am quite anti taxing sugary drinks etc as this disadvantages the poorer people more than the well off.

 

 

How? Sugary drinks are not essential like vegetables.

 

They are neutral to harmful and cost <$1/Litre.  Make them $3/Litre like beer.

 

As an alternate safe drinking water is available from the kitchen tap almost everywhere in NZ for <$0.01/Litre.

 

 

 

 

 

 





Mike

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  Reply # 1658880 27-Oct-2016 12:01 Send private message quote this post

I don't add sugar or salt to food post cooking. I also don't sugary drink soft drinks. The last thing I need is to invite the illnesses these two white substances can bring.





Mike
Retired IT Manager, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Don't use that mobility toilet if you can use a tree, don't use that mobility park if you can walk from down the road, don't mock that disability be it visible or not and remember it can take but a minute to join us.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1659024 27-Oct-2016 13:45 Send private message quote this post

Wade:

 

What about the sugar in fruit argument? Some say bad, some say its fine, but surely eating food with added sugar plus plenty of fruit all adds up to the same thing, too much sugar, zero added sugar and eating fruit should be ok?

 

 

Sugar in association with insoluble fibre (present in fruit) is less of an issue than refined sugar.

 

General rule of thumb - the more processed something is, the less healthy. 





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  Reply # 1659065 27-Oct-2016 14:41 Send private message quote this post

MikeAqua:

 

Wade:

 

What about the sugar in fruit argument? Some say bad, some say its fine, but surely eating food with added sugar plus plenty of fruit all adds up to the same thing, too much sugar, zero added sugar and eating fruit should be ok?

 

 

Sugar in association with insoluble fibre (present in fruit) is less of an issue than refined sugar.

 

General rule of thumb - the more processed something is, the less healthy. 

 

 

Sugar content in fruit, typical examples:

 

Grapes - 16% 

 

Banana - 12%

 

Apple - 10%

 

Kiwifruit - 9%

 

Orange - 9%

 

Peach - 8%

 

 

 

I kind of agree, certainly about processed food.  But then again, I'm not sure that there's much good science to confirm, ie the fructose content isn't able to be used immediately like other sugars and starch broken down to glocose and taken into the bloodstream, so does it actually matter how quickly it's absorbed through the gut wall, how that impacts on lipogenesis, and what else goes on in our gut (ie with our microbiome etc), impact on hunger, insulin response etc?

 

I'm no fan of "Paleo Pete" etc, but there's a certain logic to some of it, and it's pretty unlikely (IMO) that at any point in human history until now, has there been abundant fruit available 365 days a year, it doesn't store well, and at a guess modern popular fruit varieties contain more sugar than wild varieties.  It also makes sense in a paleo kind of way, that our bodies would metabolise fructose to fat in the summer months when fruit is plentiful - to keep us going when food is scarce over winter. Even the way fructose doesn't moderate hunger fits - keep eating when fruit is plentiful, get fat - as that's going to be a survival advantage when winter is here.

 

A bit far-fetched - perhaps - perhaps not.

 

My general rule of thumb is moderation, even with some unprocessed foods.


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  Reply # 1659103 27-Oct-2016 15:39 Send private message quote this post

The mounting evidence of harm from processed sucrose containing foods is considerable. They are potent drivers of both obesity and Type 2 diabetes. 50 years ago the sugar lobby in the US successfully managed to get fat labelled as harmful towards heart disease, by funding some dubious studies. That set forth  5 decades of "fat bad" "other calories good". Sadly, they were wrong, and society is paying the price. Coca-Cola is still touting the line that it is calories, and not what they contain that causes obesity. There are less than 10 global companies that have strong vested interests in maintaining sucrose or corn syrup in their highly profitable products. If you lower the fat content, you need to raise the sweetness to keep things palatable.


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  Reply # 1659108 27-Oct-2016 15:56 Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

"Sugar" is listed as an ingredient, but some of the "sugar" in the nutritional panel will be from maltose (from malt extract) as opposed to "sucrose" (cane sugar).

 

 

I need to watch my sugar intake, and it upsets me to see the "sugar free" stuff thats around. 

 

Like this gem: http://www.icecream.co.nz/Grocery/Zilch/

 

Sure, they have not added "sugar", but boy have they added "natural sugar". My digestive system does not respond well to lactose - so you can imagine what this thing does to me... If nothing else, its a sweet way to relieve constipation :D Their "natural sugar" is tons and tons of Lactose.

 

Really shouldn't be allowed to call products with "Natural sugar" - sugar free.

 

Same thing goes for candy where they use maltodextrin and/or maltose and call it "sugar free". For someone that needs to watch their sugar intake, the maltodextrin is actually worse for raising your blood sugar levels than regular sugar! You also need more of it for the same sweetness level as regular sugar. Blows my mind that they are allowed to call products stuffed with it "sugar free".

 

Here are some other names for sugar that they might put in "sugar free" stuff.





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  Reply # 1659119 27-Oct-2016 16:17 Send private message quote this post

MikeAqua:

 

Some foods pick up a slight metallic tang from stainless steel surfaces in processing plants.  You mask this taste with a bit of added salt. Where a slightly salty flavour is undesirable you add a bit of sugar to offset the salt.

 

If you see sugar and salt added to processed foods in similar amounts in similar amounts (e.g. sequential in ingredients list) there is a good chance it's flavour correction.

 

 

 

 

Interesting. I also understand sugar and salt acts as a preservative to extend shelf life etc. But put a lot of sugar in and it tastes too sweet or too much salt and it tastes too salty, but put both sugar and salt in together and they cancel each other out taste wise.


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  Reply # 1659893 28-Oct-2016 15:38 Send private message quote this post

Fred99:

 

It's actually very hard to read the labels, let alone understand them.  Then it's still not clear science, that sugar at moderate level of intake, is as bad as some say.

 

 

 

 

If we are considering sugar only:

 

How is it hard?

 

Every label has amount per 100g and amount per serving, as well as how many servings per container.

 

My 7 year old understands to look at sugar content and the conversation isn't complicated. More is bad.

 

As far as clear science - don't have a definitive source regarding sugar consumption at "moderate" (what is moderate) levels. However plenty out there showing the impact on cardiovascular health and other effects of sugar in the diet. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone in medicine, nutrition or health who is pro-added sugar.

 

In short - eat less sugar. Cut it down over time. It will do your health good. Any food you think you can't live without can be replaced.

 

 


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