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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1016668 1-Apr-2014 16:45 Send private message

But they're searching the Indian ocean because of the Inmarsat data. I don't see any significance to the pilot's last transmitted words differing from what they originally said they were and I don't see what the relevance is of his words to the search zone.

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  Reply # 1016675 1-Apr-2014 17:19 Send private message

Journeyman: But they're searching the Indian ocean because of the Inmarsat data. I don't see any significance to the pilot's last transmitted words differing from what they originally said they were and I don't see what the relevance is of his words to the search zone.


I dont know why they still havent got a ping finder out there as the recovery of any debris from the plane has nothing to do with the location of it

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  Reply # 1016683 1-Apr-2014 17:34 Send private message

tdgeek:
Journeyman: But they're searching the Indian ocean because of the Inmarsat data. I don't see any significance to the pilot's last transmitted words differing from what they originally said they were and I don't see what the relevance is of his words to the search zone.


I dont know why they still havent got a ping finder out there as the recovery of any debris from the plane has nothing to do with the location of it


Probably becuase it is a waste of time unless they know where it crashed, as apparently it can only scan a square mile per day. They are searching thousands of square miles. 

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  Reply # 1016713 1-Apr-2014 18:14 Send private message

mattwnz:
tdgeek:
Journeyman: But they're searching the Indian ocean because of the Inmarsat data. I don't see any significance to the pilot's last transmitted words differing from what they originally said they were and I don't see what the relevance is of his words to the search zone.


I dont know why they still havent got a ping finder out there as the recovery of any debris from the plane has nothing to do with the location of it


Probably becuase it is a waste of time unless they know where it crashed, as apparently it can only scan a square mile per day. They are searching thousands of square miles. 


But finding any debris floating won't give any clues at all. They decided where they felt it went down, may as well have started scanning for the ping there as soon as one arrived. Debris will have floated around the Gyre for 3.5 weeks, that gives no clue. If there was no Gyre, they could find debris and backtrack the current and wind to get a rough idea, but that won't work in that area of the ocean due to the Gyre

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  Reply # 1016731 1-Apr-2014 18:45 Send private message

tdgeek:
mattwnz:
tdgeek:
Journeyman: But they're searching the Indian ocean because of the Inmarsat data. I don't see any significance to the pilot's last transmitted words differing from what they originally said they were and I don't see what the relevance is of his words to the search zone.


I dont know why they still havent got a ping finder out there as the recovery of any debris from the plane has nothing to do with the location of it


Probably becuase it is a waste of time unless they know where it crashed, as apparently it can only scan a square mile per day. They are searching thousands of square miles. 


But finding any debris floating won't give any clues at all. They decided where they felt it went down, may as well have started scanning for the ping there as soon as one arrived. Debris will have floated around the Gyre for 3.5 weeks, that gives no clue. If there was no Gyre, they could find debris and backtrack the current and wind to get a rough idea, but that won't work in that area of the ocean due to the Gyre


Debris will certainly give a clue where it is because they they can calculate how far it has drifted. At the moment they have a very broad area which is larger than the size of many countries, so they haven't even found the haystack to search. There is also no guarantee that it is even in the area they are searching, as the area has already shifted at least once. Once they find debris, then that will be the haystack to search, but it will still be a needle in the haystack to find the blackbox.

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  Reply # 1016745 1-Apr-2014 19:06 Send private message

tdgeek:

I dont know why they still havent got a ping finder out there as the recovery of any debris from the plane has nothing to do with the location of it

According to the news here in oz yesterday, they're using it... and the minisub to pick up anything they find.

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  Reply # 1016788 1-Apr-2014 20:18 Send private message

mattwnz:
tdgeek:
mattwnz:
tdgeek:
Journeyman: But they're searching the Indian ocean because of the Inmarsat data. I don't see any significance to the pilot's last transmitted words differing from what they originally said they were and I don't see what the relevance is of his words to the search zone.


I dont know why they still havent got a ping finder out there as the recovery of any debris from the plane has nothing to do with the location of it


Probably becuase it is a waste of time unless they know where it crashed, as apparently it can only scan a square mile per day. They are searching thousands of square miles. 


But finding any debris floating won't give any clues at all. They decided where they felt it went down, may as well have started scanning for the ping there as soon as one arrived. Debris will have floated around the Gyre for 3.5 weeks, that gives no clue. If there was no Gyre, they could find debris and backtrack the current and wind to get a rough idea, but that won't work in that area of the ocean due to the Gyre


Debris will certainly give a clue where it is because they they can calculate how far it has drifted. At the moment they have a very broad area which is larger than the size of many countries, so they haven't even found the haystack to search. There is also no guarantee that it is even in the area they are searching, as the area has already shifted at least once. Once they find debris, then that will be the haystack to search, but it will still be a needle in the haystack to find the blackbox.


The area rotates, its like a massive eddy. If it was in a normal area, where the current moves one way or in a known general direction and the wind is known, yes they could reverse track to narrow the source. But I do not believe that the debris will give any idea, given the eddy it is all in.

gzt

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  Reply # 1016816 1-Apr-2014 21:12 Send private message

Debris. Debris. Debris. There is no debris to analyse. /grump. Edit: gah media..

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  Reply # 1016818 1-Apr-2014 21:20 Send private message

If we assume the search area is where the plane went down, where is the debris? Its been moving for over 3 weeks, it can be hundreds and hundreds of miles away, all over the Indian Ocean. In fact its possible and I feel likely that the debris will be everywhere except where the plane went down.

Now, we hear the famous last words, alright goodnight are wrong, it was Goodnight Malaysian three seven zero. All I feel they can do is have gotten pinger finders combing the area urgently where they feel it went down, and sonar. But with days to go before the pings stop, thats just started. 

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  Reply # 1016852 1-Apr-2014 22:22 Send private message

The captains last words may be more significant than people think.

There was early days speculation that "Alright, goodnight", may have been a way of communicating under duress as this was not the correct way to sign off verbally with air traffic control.  Keep in mind, I'm no pilot, but it kinda' makes sense.

The only reason it comes back to mind now, is because now they are saying the last words were "Goodnight, Malaysian three seven zero" which is what I would consider to be much closer to a perfectly normal sign-off.

The Malaysian government have more than proved they are incapable of delivering reliable results and information in a timely fashion.  What's to stop the airline from changing their story as damage control in order to stop those who may claim ATC should have done something when an incorrect sign-off was given.  I could be over-thinking the whole thing...I have no idea how seriously pilots take signing off correctly over the radio and whether or not it gets casual after a while, but one would assume they have a strict communications policy regarding saying the right things over the air to avoid confusion.

If a pilot could weigh in, that would be nice.





Sometimes what you don't get it a blessing in disguise!

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  Reply # 1016853 1-Apr-2014 22:24 Send private message

Don't forget there appears to be no earlier official release of transcripts until now...

The UK guardian broke a 'leaked' or sourced document, (which may well have been transcribed by a media agent listening to the recording for all we know)

It's only since someone asked when they will speak on it officially at a press conference was it released, with the point its still being investigated :)

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  Reply # 1016856 1-Apr-2014 22:26 Send private message

anyway, this saga has showed me something else - when it comes to news that matter cnn is the best.




Apologies for poor typing standards when on Samsung S4 [swype's fault]/iPad 2 Wifi[too slow to use!]

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  Reply # 1016878 1-Apr-2014 22:42 Send private message

Oblivian: Don't forget there appears to be no earlier official release of transcripts until now...

The UK guardian broke a 'leaked' or sourced document, (which may well have been transcribed by a media agent listening to the recording for all we know)

It's only since someone asked when they will speak on it officially at a press conference was it released, with the point its still being investigated :)


There should have been no need to transcribe, all ATC conversations are in English especially international




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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1016896 1-Apr-2014 22:46 Send private message

DravidDavid: The captains last words may be more significant than people think.

There was early days speculation that "Alright, goodnight", may have been a way of communicating under duress as this was not the correct way to sign off verbally with air traffic control.  Keep in mind, I'm no pilot, but it kinda' makes sense.

The only reason it comes back to mind now, is because now they are saying the last words were "Goodnight, Malaysian three seven zero" which is what I would consider to be much closer to a perfectly normal sign-off.

The Malaysian government have more than proved they are incapable of delivering reliable results and information in a timely fashion.  What's to stop the airline from changing their story as damage control in order to stop those who may claim ATC should have done something when an incorrect sign-off was given.  I could be over-thinking the whole thing...I have no idea how seriously pilots take signing off correctly over the radio and whether or not it gets casual after a while, but one would assume they have a strict communications policy regarding saying the right things over the air to avoid confusion.

If a pilot could weigh in, that would be nice.


Nothing unusual with either sign off. 




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1016914 1-Apr-2014 23:01 Send private message

What's the bet it didn't crash, land, or was shot down somewhere over Indonesia?




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