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869 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 51


  Reply # 662837 27-Jul-2012 11:02 Send private message

kate113: Complete dummy here! but I can contribute that I just bought the THP50ST50Z from Harvey Norman's for $1755 in their sale last weekend, not sure if its still on, but worth a look.

"always calibrate your new tv"? is that in a "dummies" capability? or a job for an expert? thanks.


Thanks I'll take a look, doesn't appear on their website so will go to the store

423 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60


  Reply # 662849 27-Jul-2012 11:20 Send private message

  
"always calibrate your new tv"? is that in a "dummies" capability? or a job for an expert? thanks.

You're buying a nice TV so I reckon its worth spending a bit of time getting a good picture, a bit more time for a really good picture and a bit of cash for an excellent picture.

Calibration for dummies - use a pixar type DVD (eg the Incredible). There’s a THX Calibration in there which is really simple to use.

Calibration for people with time on their hands. DVE (Digital Video Essentials) - available for a few bucks from stores retail and online. Takes a bit of trawling through to get where you want to be and pretty dull otherwise - but it does do the audio setup for 5.1 home theatres as well. Yoiu get a blue / red green filter.

AVS HD 709. A free download which you burn onto a disk. Pretty easy to use but you need a few computer skills to download and burn.

Those with the cash - call in the experts. I think there is an ISF calibrator on this forum (based in Christchurch?) who travels from time to time.

Calibration is a bit like an audiophile. At some point between the out-of-box set up and ISF calibration the end user will stop seeing difference in setup. Me - I see differences between out of the box to THX to DVE but struggle to see any difference with AVS HD even though tweaks are made. There will be those who can appreciate a ISF calibration (akin to a tube /vinyl affectionado in audio terms) and those that are quite happy with their out of box experience (an ipod 128 kbs MP3 music file)

661 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 662868 27-Jul-2012 11:46 Send private message

Its important to not confuse calibration with picture adjustment.

Calibration uses instrumentation (colorimeter/spectrophotometer) and software to read values from the screen and inform the calibrator what adjustments need to be made. These are adjustments that cannot be made by eye, even though the end result is often easy to see (otherwise it would be a pointless excercise right?).

Picture adjustment discs like Disney WOW and DVD Video Essentials are not capable of calibration. They are an aide to help make some basic adjustments, but they are a far cry from properly calibrated settings.

If you want picture quality straight out of the box without any fuss or additional expense, then the GT and VT with THX Cinema preset is a better choice. If you don't care, then get the ST50. If you decide to later down the road get it properly calibrated, the ST50 will be better value and when dialed in properly, will outperform the GT50.

423 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60


  Reply # 662887 27-Jul-2012 12:13 Send private message

fahrenheit: Its important to not confuse calibration with picture adjustment. 
.

Hmm - I sense a discussion on semantics is in order.

In my, admittedly limited world, world "calibration" is simply making an adjustment to something so it meets a certain objective standard. If your standard is a Pixar DVD standard or a DVE standard or an ISF standard any adjustment you make is a calibration. Arguably the higher the level of standard the greater the degree of calibration. Pixar may be the lower end of a calibration and ISF might be the top end but somewhere along that continuum is a calibration.

A picture adjustment is when a person sits down with the remote and twiddles with the settings until the picture is pleasing to the eye.

It is quite possible that a pleasing picture and a calibrated TV are not one and the same. Some may prefer the retina blazing of a “vivid” picture adjustment where as others might prefer a picture that the TV producers aimed to create.

I think when we talk about “calibration” we are talking about adjusting the picture closer towards the video standards used by the film producers. That is, we are viewing a picture closer to the way it was intended to look rather than how we might prefer it to look.

661 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 662908 27-Jul-2012 12:35 Send private message

minimoke:
Hmm - I sense a discussion on semantics is in order.


Not at all. Calibration is the correction of errors in the display's output in order to reach reference standards.
Calibration uses the advanced picture adjustment controls to eliminate errors in the grayscale, gamma and the hue and luminance of colour. The goal is to eliminate those errors completely.

Adjustment discs do not address any of that. They allow you to set brightness and contrast (which is done by eye in professional calibration btw) and they allow you to reduce some of the luminance error, but at the cost of adjusting all three colours and not just the problem ones. You are not removing errors with these discs, you are shuffling them around in order to get the best compromise.

If you are not convinced and want to do a little bit of lite reading, then please have a look at this very humble article from a professional reviewer who recently had his eyes opened as to the fundamental difference we are debating here.

http://hometheaterreview.com/rethinking-the-importance-of-video-calibration/

423 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60


  Reply # 662923 27-Jul-2012 13:11 Send private message


If you are not convinced and want to do a little bit of lite reading, then please have a look at this very humble article from a professional reviewer who recently had his eyes opened as to the fundamental difference we are debating here. 

Getting a little off topic but I think we can distil his 1800 words into "if you aspire for a Panasonic panel with SMPTE reference standard display you will need to hire a THX or ISF certified calibrator who will use electronic equipment to make advance level adjustments”.

 

Which begs the question: are the Panasonics capable of reaching SMPTE reference standard or does your ISF calibrator just adjust the picture controls  a bit further up the continuum towards that ultimate standard. If  the TV can’t meet SMPTE then perhaps we can calibrate to a Jo Kane DVE standard or a Pixar DVD standard using the available equipment to achieve the reference standards used by these tools.

Edit: heres an even more humble view on our discussion http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/calibrate-hdtv1.htm

661 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 662928 27-Jul-2012 13:19 Send private message

minimoke:
Which begs the question: are the Panasonics capable of reaching SMPTE reference standard or does your ISF calibrator just adjust the picture controls  a bit further up the continuum towards that ultimate standard. If  the TV can’t meet SMPTE then perhaps we can calibrate to a Jo Kane DVE standard or a Pixar DVD standard using the available equipment to achieve the reference standards used by these tools.


The ST, GT and VT are all capable of reference standards. None are out of the box though.

423 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60


  Reply # 662938 27-Jul-2012 13:54 Send private message

fahrenheit:
minimoke:
Which begs the question: are the Panasonics capable of reaching SMPTE reference standard or does your ISF calibrator just adjust the picture controls  a bit further up the continuum towards that ultimate standard. If  the TV can’t meet SMPTE then perhaps we can calibrate to a Jo Kane DVE standard or a Pixar DVD standard using the available equipment to achieve the reference standards used by these tools.


The ST, GT and VT are all capable of reference standards. None are out of the box though.

So is it possible to calibrate a UT or X panel to a standard less than reference

661 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 662992 27-Jul-2012 15:42 Send private message

minimoke:  So is it possible to calibrate a UT or X panel to a standard less than reference


X doesn't have the advanced controls but UT has the exact same full colour management system as the ST when using True Cinema.

423 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60


  Reply # 663020 27-Jul-2012 16:52 Send private message

fahrenheit:
minimoke:  So is it possible to calibrate a UT or X panel to a standard less than reference


X doesn't have the advanced controls but UT has the exact same full colour management system as the ST when using True Cinema.

No doubt - but can the panels acheive SMPTE quality?

661 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 22


  Reply # 663047 27-Jul-2012 18:05 Send private message

minimoke:
No doubt - but can the panels acheive SMPTE quality?


Yes.

115 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 4


  Reply # 669613 8-Aug-2012 14:15 Send private message

To clarify, SMPTE is not a standard itself, but a group/body who collectively agree on "standards" to use. THX or isf also do not set standards, however they are affiliated with SMPTE for the same end goal.

For us currently the only modern standard is Rec709 which defines the primary colours, white point and a number of other parameters. Wiki explains some details
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709

The broadcast system adheres to these guidelines, your OLD TV's were swayed by personal preference, display limitations and keenness to sell in a competitive market.
Modern TV's have a mix of attempted adherance, personal preference, display limitations and keenness to sell in a competitive market.

To have the THX badge or isf means they can comply with the Rec709 standard within reasonble tolerances. Some displays are capable but don't carry the label.

613 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 8


  Reply # 679950 31-Aug-2012 23:40 Send private message

The U50 shouldn't be confused with the UT50. The U50 is a 1080p version of the X50 and lacks the multimedia features and 2500Hz subfield drive of the UT50 and higher models.

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