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388 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 667892 5-Aug-2012 18:51 Send private message


Telecom's testing policies are flawed and it's really quite a disappointment that they are the ones who exercise control over the updates instead of HTC or Google.

Lesson learned though. Never buy an android phone from Telecom.

34 posts

Geek


  Reply # 667926 5-Aug-2012 20:03 Send private message

caldazar:
Telecom's testing policies are flawed and it's really quite a disappointment that they are the ones who exercise control over the updates instead of HTC or Google.

Lesson learned though. Never buy an android phone from Telecom.



Carrier's pushing updates out is the dumbest idea since... Ever, especially in TelecomNZ's case..

388 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 668037 5-Aug-2012 23:38 Send private message

I used to work for Telecom... a long while back... It reminds me of what things were like... and how things don't really appear to have changed.

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Trusted

  Reply # 668088 6-Aug-2012 09:29 Send private message

m2geek:
caldazar:
Telecom's testing policies are flawed and it's really quite a disappointment that they are the ones who exercise control over the updates instead of HTC or Google.

Lesson learned though. Never buy an android phone from Telecom.


Carrier's pushing updates out is the dumbest idea since... Ever, especially in TelecomNZ's case..


I suggest you find someone who actually works in the mobile carrier space and talk with them before you make such a silly comment.  There are plenty on Geekzone who know how it works.

Either you say you don't give a .... about the guarantee and root the phone yourself and then you're on your own.  Or you think for a second that releasing an untested and buggy phone update which impacts a end-users phone experience is probably a bad thing driving more people back to your stores / call centers and returns process thus annoying customers even more.

Seeing how things are done between Android (where it's up to the OEM & Carrier to make sure it works) and the Apple (where Apple just releases the update to the device and the Carrier just has to hope it doesn't kill their network or impact the users experience too much) I know what I would prefer and a more cautious approach is a prudent thing.

Lets all stop and pause for a minute and remember the people in Christchurch during the earthquakes.  That's the time that your phone is a life saving device.  How would you feel if that wasn't tested during an update and was broken at the time you really needed it?




Check out my Mobile Cell Site Google Maps KML Files in my blog.
Now using Google Fusion Tables or Address Lookup or GPS using Smartphone
I update it on a monthly basis automatically from RSM.

34 posts

Geek


  Reply # 668121 6-Aug-2012 10:25 Send private message

BarTender:
m2geek:
caldazar:
Telecom's testing policies are flawed and it's really quite a disappointment that they are the ones who exercise control over the updates instead of HTC or Google.

Lesson learned though. Never buy an android phone from Telecom.


Carrier's pushing updates out is the dumbest idea since... Ever, especially in TelecomNZ's case..


I suggest you find someone who actually works in the mobile carrier space and talk with them before you make such a silly comment.  There are plenty on Geekzone who know how it works.

Either you say you don't give a .... about the guarantee and root the phone yourself and then you're on your own.  Or you think for a second that releasing an untested and buggy phone update which impacts a end-users phone experience is probably a bad thing driving more people back to your stores / call centers and returns process thus annoying customers even more.

Seeing how things are done between Android (where it's up to the OEM & Carrier to make sure it works) and the Apple (where Apple just releases the update to the device and the Carrier just has to hope it doesn't kill their network or impact the users experience too much) I know what I would prefer and a more cautious approach is a prudent thing.

Lets all stop and pause for a minute and remember the people in Christchurch during the earthquakes.  That's the time that your phone is a life saving device.  How would you feel if that wasn't tested during an update and was broken at the time you really needed it?


Oh no you Didn't.... /Ghetto

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  Reply # 668157 6-Aug-2012 11:21 Send private message

BarTender: ........

Lets all stop and pause for a minute and remember the people in Christchurch during the earthquakes.  That's the time that your phone is a life saving device.  How would you feel if that wasn't tested during an update and was broken at the time you really needed it?


Or how would you feel if your battery was flat due to running non-optimised firmware? 
If the main concern is emergency use then surely a simple talk and text phone that has a battery that will last a week because it is not compromised by 'smart' functions would be better.  While I don't live in Christchurch and so can't possibly know what it is like, I do spend quite a bit of time there and carry a T&T phone as a backup.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

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  Reply # 668173 6-Aug-2012 11:46 Send private message

m2geek: Oh no you Didn't.... /Ghetto


My view is either you're geek enough to Root/Flash your own phone and live with the consequences if you screw it up since you *NEED* to have Feature X/Y/Z to increase your Geek Credz by being on the most bleeding edge release (same applies to Apple with Jailbreak) or say "I purchased this phone off a provider because I want it to work and they want to make sure they don't break my phone 'cause they hate annoying their customers unnecessarily so they're not going to push a fully tested patch down to me".

Dingbatt:
BarTender: ........

Lets all stop and pause for a minute and remember the people in Christchurch during the earthquakes.  That's the time that your phone is a life saving device.  How would you feel if that wasn't tested during an update and was broken at the time you really needed it?


Or how would you feel if your battery was flat due to running non-optimised firmware? 
If the main concern is emergency use then surely a simple talk and text phone that has a battery that will last a week because it is not compromised by 'smart' functions would be better.  While I don't live in Christchurch and so can't possibly know what it is like, I do spend quite a bit of time there and carry a T&T phone as a backup.


Precisely my point, if you put on your own rom which has fast dormancy the wrong way around things get even worse...

Can't have it both ways IMHO.




Check out my Mobile Cell Site Google Maps KML Files in my blog.
Now using Google Fusion Tables or Address Lookup or GPS using Smartphone
I update it on a monthly basis automatically from RSM.

336 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 4


  Reply # 668186 6-Aug-2012 12:09 Send private message

BarTender:
m2geek: Oh no you Didn't.... /Ghetto


My view is either you're geek enough to Root/Flash your own phone and live with the consequences if you screw it up since you *NEED* to have Feature X/Y/Z to increase your Geek Credz by being on the most bleeding edge release (same applies to Apple with Jailbreak) or say "I purchased this phone off a provider because I want it to work and they want to make sure they don't break my phone 'cause they hate annoying their customers unnecessarily so they're not going to push a fully tested patch down to me".

Dingbatt:
BarTender: ........

Lets all stop and pause for a minute and remember the people in Christchurch during the earthquakes.  That's the time that your phone is a life saving device.  How would you feel if that wasn't tested during an update and was broken at the time you really needed it?


Or how would you feel if your battery was flat due to running non-optimised firmware? 
If the main concern is emergency use then surely a simple talk and text phone that has a battery that will last a week because it is not compromised by 'smart' functions would be better.  While I don't live in Christchurch and so can't possibly know what it is like, I do spend quite a bit of time there and carry a T&T phone as a backup.


Precisely my point, if you put on your own rom which has fast dormancy the wrong way around things get even worse...

Can't have it both ways IMHO.


I agree largely with the above but In the case of the Telecom One X, we don't have either!

We have a phone that, apparently, has (by telecoms own statements) "tested and optimized" firmware in the initial release that is filled with bugs causing short battery life, restarts/reboots, storage space to vanish,  home screen to freeze/reload, multitasking/memory management faults, navigation audio problems, screen flickering,  screen redraw problems and etc..

We (Telecom One X Customers) are not wanting new features for upgrades, just the bug fixes that the rest of the world has. 

I can understand a Jelly Bean release taking its time, but a maintainace release should not be hard to push out. 

If I look the One X that my mate has (From 2D), purchased the same time as me (from Telecom).  Initially we had the same issues, same battery life and same performance.  Now he has the update, I don't. 

His phone has about 30% longer battery life. No lockups.  No freezing, none of the issues we both had before the update. 



34 posts

Geek


  Reply # 668197 6-Aug-2012 12:17 Send private message

skyplonk:
BarTender:
m2geek: Oh no you Didn't.... /Ghetto


My view is either you're geek enough to Root/Flash your own phone and live with the consequences if you screw it up since you *NEED* to have Feature X/Y/Z to increase your Geek Credz by being on the most bleeding edge release (same applies to Apple with Jailbreak) or say "I purchased this phone off a provider because I want it to work and they want to make sure they don't break my phone 'cause they hate annoying their customers unnecessarily so they're not going to push a fully tested patch down to me".

Dingbatt:
BarTender: ........

Lets all stop and pause for a minute and remember the people in Christchurch during the earthquakes.? That's the time that your phone is a life saving device.? How would you feel if that wasn't tested during an update and was broken at the time you really needed it?


Or how would you feel if your battery was flat due to running non-optimised firmware??
If the main concern is emergency use then surely a simple talk and text phone that has a battery that will last a week because it is not compromised by 'smart' functions would be better.? While I don't live in Christchurch and so can't possibly know what it is like, I do spend quite a bit of time there and carry a T&T phone as a backup.


Precisely my point, if you put on your own rom which has fast dormancy the wrong way around things get even worse...

Can't have it both ways IMHO.


I agree?largely with the above but?In the case of the Telecom One X, we don't have either!

We have a phone that,?apparently, has (by telecoms own statements) "tested and?optimized" firmware in the?initial?release?that is filled with bugs?causing?short battery life, restarts/reboots, storage space to?vanish,??home screen to freeze/reload,?multitasking/memory?management?faults, navigation audio problems, screen?flickering, ?screen redraw problems and etc..

We (Telecom One X Customers) are not wanting new features for upgrades, just the bug fixes that the rest of the world has.?

I can understand a Jelly Bean release taking its time, but a maintainace release should not be hard to push out.?

If I look the One X that my mate has (From 2D), purchased?the same time as me (from Telecom). ?Initially?we had the same issues, same battery life and same?performance. ?Now he has the update, I?don't.?

His phone has about 30% longer battery life. No lockups. ?No freezing, none of the issues we both had?before?the?update.?




All I want is the god forsaken bug fixes and such as well, is that too much to ask of telecom?!


1965 posts

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  Reply # 668231 6-Aug-2012 12:46 Send private message

BarTender: ..........

Precisely my point, if you put on your own rom which has fast dormancy the wrong way around things get even worse...

Can't have it both ways IMHO.


We seem to be arguing by agreeing.  It is precisely because I want to remain on a stock Telecom firmware that I want them to pull their finger out and release 1.28 or 1.29 with the bug fixes to make my phone more efficient, stable, etc.  If I wanted to go custom, I would already be there. 
At least I have the luxury of changing networks at the drop of a hat as I am not under contract.  I decided to give Telecom a go because the SIM came with the phone.  Fast dormancy isn't a major for me either (don't have 3G on often enough). If you have a rooted phone because of the custom ROM then you can always edit the build.prop file if the dormancy setting is the wrong way round.  Some custom ROMs even have toggles to turn the fast dormancy on or off.

Did the current buggy, power hungry 1.26 firmware currently installed go through the same rigorous testing to ensure the best possible customer experience as we are told the updates are?

Once again the fact their competitors have had the bug fixes out for months should make Telecom feel very embarassed.

Edit: Grammar




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

388 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 669351 7-Aug-2012 23:24 Send private message

BarTender, I think if Telecom offered an explanation as to what exactly is holding up the testing / rollout of versions 1.28 or 1.29 then people could understand.

What I mean by explanation is not marketing speak, that really helps no one.

Why not say explicitly: "We have 1.29 in testing currently. Unfortunately, there is a deal breaker bug which means that upon upgrade, it wipes the users saved txt messages. We have contacted HTC for a fix and they have responded that they are working on it. We'll update the status again in 14 days."

How hard is that???

Oh, they can't say that? Legal reasons? I'm doubtful, except that they are scared of saying anything bad about a phone manufacturer they buy phones from... Which leads me to:

Telecom buys a pittance of handsets in the grand scheme of things. So they find a bug. They go back to HTC and the conversation goes like this:

Telecom: "hai guyz, we bought 2,000 handsets from you and we found wallpaper bug in yur Androids."
HTC: "Oh what? The wallpaper bug? Yeah, that's an issue.. we'll fix it in the next few releases. Just release the update. We'll keep the bug on file and notify you when it's fixed."
Telecom: "butz our live wallpapers reboots!"
HTC: "Hold. Please. AT&T on the line. They want another 1 million handsets."
Telecom: ~listens to hold music~ 30 minutes goes by... *click* *call disconnected*
Telecom: *Dials HTC*
HTC Voicemail: "Thanks for calling HTC. Please leave a message, we'll get back to you."

The sad thing is... every other carrier just get on with it and release the update. Their networks have yet to burn down.

34 posts

Geek


  Reply # 669357 7-Aug-2012 23:32 Send private message

caldazar: BarTender, I think if Telecom offered an explanation as to what exactly is holding up the testing / rollout of versions 1.28 or 1.29 then people could understand.

What I mean by explanation is not marketing speak, that really helps no one.

Why not say explicitly: "We have 1.29 in testing currently. Unfortunately, there is a deal breaker bug which means that upon upgrade, it wipes the users saved txt messages. We have contacted HTC for a fix and they have responded that they are working on it. We'll update the status again in 14 days."

How hard is that???

Oh, they can't say that? Legal reasons? I'm doubtful, except that they are scared of saying anything bad about a phone manufacturer they buy phones from... Which leads me to:

Telecom buys a pittance of handsets in the grand scheme of things. So they find a bug. They go back to HTC and the conversation goes like this:

Telecom: "hai guyz, we bought 2,000 handsets from you and we found wallpaper bug in yur Androids."
HTC: "Oh what? The wallpaper bug? Yeah, that's an issue.. we'll fix it in the next few releases. Just release the update. We'll keep the bug on file and notify you when it's fixed."
Telecom: "butz our live wallpapers reboots!"
HTC: "Hold. Please. AT&T on the line. They want another 1 million handsets."
Telecom: ~listens to hold music~ 30 minutes goes by... *click* *call disconnected*
Telecom: *Dials HTC*
HTC Voicemail: "Thanks for calling HTC. Please leave a message, we'll get back to you."

The sad thing is... every other carrier just get on with it and release the update. Their networks have yet to burn down.


I can so see a discussion between Telecom and HTC sounding Just like that - I've dealt with the UBS Side of Telecom and their a bunch of liers lol.

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  Reply # 669427 8-Aug-2012 09:06 Send private message

Okay I give up.
My only hope now is that Telecom are current 'working really hard' on testing the 2.15 ROM containing Android 4.0.4 that fixes all the 'known' bugs - including the 3 dot menu bar (which really annoys me), and will release that in a timely fashion. It would appear that by the end of this month they should have had it for at least a month.
I have already swapped my VFNZ sim over to a micro-sim, and by the middle of next month my TNZ balance will be down to near zero. That way if I need to get 2.15 via the custom route, I don't need to worry about fast dormancy because the VFNZ network supports it.
I know TNZ won't really care about losing one customer, or VFNZ getting one back, but the whole thing leaves me feeling a bit sad for the 'smartphone network'.




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

Watchmaker Wizard
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  Reply # 669609 8-Aug-2012 14:02 Send private message

Looks like the extensive testing should only be necessary if either

A) There is something fundamentally different (broken?) in Telecom's implementation of their network to other similar providers elsewhere.

or

B) Their telco-specific customisations are causing problems (custom icons, wallpapers etc)

In either case, resulting in ongoing back & forth discussions with HTC. Otherwise, given that virtually everyone else is happily using the newer versions, folks wouldn't be in this situation.

If 2D & VF can manage it (ages is still better than bloody ages), what's the problem?




42 posts

Geek

Trusted

  Reply # 669624 8-Aug-2012 14:29 Send private message

Guys, wanted to come back in and address some of the feedback, that I can.

The blog post was designed as a generic background or an explaination on our testing programme, applicable to all handsets and updates - like I said before, apologies to those wanting updates on the One X update. Again, we don't give details on where a particular update is at.

For the 'every other network has it' feedback, every network is different, we owe it to our own customers to test updates thoroughly - again, like in the post, we feel that's the best thing to do to give customers the best experience.

We only recommend using the software supplied by us, as it's been tested by us, and we endorse it. Installing ROMs from anywhere affects your warranty.

FWIW I own a One X also - my own experience has been that battery life is comparable to other smartphones I've had (Sensation, Defy, Milestone), I charge it every night. I've seen the odd screen flicker, but sporadically and nothing major, and have seen the 'waiting' logo pop up occasionally when switching applications. A restart ususally sorts that out. Yes, I'm looking forward to the update too.

So yeah - point(s) taken. I hope the blog post was of some use, even if you disagree with it - understand the frequent posters in this thread are more interested in software updates than words at this stage.




@richirvine
@telecomnz


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