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BDFL
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  Reply # 690162 23-Sep-2012 14:47 Send private message

They may be now but from what I know there wasn't much going on together until last week. Also remember this is not Telecom but Yahoo!...




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  Reply # 690163 23-Sep-2012 14:49 Send private message

mclean: 

Are you saying that Telecom is NOT working with Telstra Clear to fix this problem?  That's not what the Telecom website or their help desk says.

I'm also puzzled as to why you seem to accept Telstra Clear's explanation that it's nothing to do with them.  How can that be when the issue affects messages to Telstra Clear domains only?  Are you saying that Telecom has somehow black-listed Tesltra Clear as a RECEIVING host?  I don't understand that (but them I'm definitely no expert).



Yes we are assuming there is nothing to fix for Telstraclear because in the other thread reps from Telstraclear have already investigated email headers provided by Geekzone users and verified the bounces are not from their servers.
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=44&topicid=108705&page_no=5#683856

Also Yahoo who provide email services for Telecom/Xtra seem to have had lots of weird problems like this historically.

The reason it's taking so long (imo) is that people didn't log the fault with Telecom at first and Telecom has to deal with their email service provider Yahoo to investigate/fix.

/yay outsourcing

ISP's in NZ provide notoriously bad email services both internally and outsourced (imo), often without: imap, ssl, alternative smtp port to 25 and with a useless web interface.

My advice is just switch to Gmail or Google Apps with your own domain, there are quite a few benefits to not being tied to ISP provided email.

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  Reply # 690169 23-Sep-2012 15:04 Send private message

Or Windows Live Domains, or Office 365. There are many options available for people to get rid of ISP emails.

It always annoys me when I see a tradesman van with a website address but email id @xtra.co.nz or @hotmail.com. I can't understand why stop halfway instead of using the domain for email as well.




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  Reply # 690173 23-Sep-2012 15:17 Send private message

freitasm: Or Windows Live Domains, or Office 365. There are many options available for people to get rid of ISP emails.

It always annoys me when I see a tradesman van with a website address but email id @xtra.co.nz or @hotmail.com. I can't understand why stop halfway instead of using the domain for email as well.


.. and when you visit their website it was done by their nephew in frontpage or dreamweaver with comic sans as the font.

Professional!

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  Reply # 690180 23-Sep-2012 15:44 Send private message

freitasm: They may be now but from what I know there wasn't much going on together until last week. Also remember this is not Telecom but Yahoo!...


It is telecom though, that would to carry the buck, as they subcontract their email out to yahoo, and I presume that telecom have direct communication with their provider yahoo, to get problems fixed.

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  Reply # 690196 23-Sep-2012 17:16 Send private message

I am not saying they're excused. I'm saying that knowing this is a Yahoo! problem it will take even longer to fix - I never heard of anything working straight way with them...





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  Reply # 690197 23-Sep-2012 17:23 Send private message

It's not just Telecom/Yahoo, its pure Yahoo (in a manner of speaking)

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  Reply # 690198 23-Sep-2012 17:23 Send private message

Yes, it's Yahoo! but the service is offered by Telecom, and they are the ones who front up to customers.




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  Reply # 690203 23-Sep-2012 17:27 Send private message

Not if it's Yahoo customers who have the problem - both people who have mentioned it to me are with Yahoo.

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  Reply # 690207 23-Sep-2012 17:38 Send private message

The thread was created by people with @xtra.co.nz address. The other discussion in the TelstraClear subforum is the same.

It seems obvious there's a problem with the services Yahoo! is providing, but the @xtra.co.nz customers are still Telecom New Zealand customers, and they not deal directly with Yahoo! - this is for Telecom to do.

The correct path is for customers to complain to Telecom and Telecom to take this to Yahoo!.




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  Reply # 690220 23-Sep-2012 18:06 Send private message

I think the the time is probably about right for clear separate press releases from both Telecom and TelstaClear. Then we'll see if their statements line up with each other or not.

I don't know, but I've been tryng to follow and understand this.

Think of an analogy in the physical world. A. You pop your letter in the Red Postbox on the corner. B. It is processed by the Gathering team (empty the postbox, blah, blah, get it in the corrrect bag e.g. NAPIER bag) C. Crossing of the Void. D. Distribution Team at Napier receives the bag. E. Distribution team processes the letter (i.e. gets it into your mother's letterbox).

In the email world, equates (near enough) to ...
A is when Xtra customer presses Send and email is picked up by the Telecom/Yahoo system. B. Telecom/Yahoo servers and systems process email (scary thought). The result should be the email eventually pushed out into that thing we call the internet, correctly addressed.  C. Crossing of the void   D. Incoming servers and systems at TelstraClear receive the email   E.  Incoming servers and systems at TelstraClear process the email (i.e. get it to the recipients inbox).

In the absence of clear statements from the two companies (probably of most interest being a full description of the problem from Telecom, given considerations like fact that their email system has broken down several times of late), I'll put forward a scenario -

Goes like this ... The failure occurs at step B i.e. fault is entirely Telecom's; the email is never in fact properly processed by their systems (including here the outsourced component of their model) i.e.  the expected outcome of the email having been "pushed out into that thing we call the internet, correctly addressed" just does not occur. It simply doesn't get that far. TelstraClear is in no way to blame - they cannot do anything with an email that is never pushed out to them.

So if that's not pretty much it Telecom, then give us more information and tell us how this thing works.

We don't just want to know "we are working with blah, blah". Is the truth that you are working with your contracted service provider Yahoo7 and asking them in a very stern fashion "the job we want you to do is to just get all of the non-spam emails on their way to the recipient's incoming mail server and promptly ... it's kind of critical and when are you going to be able to reliably do this for us?".

Given that this is a failure that occurs somewhere around the interface (the handover of the email from one company to the other), everyone's just got to get honest now. The truth will come out eventually anyhow, so let's just get on with the truth and getting this mess sorted out.

So what are the options as to how it may be eventually sorted? Not that many options that I can see. Either Telecom gets up an email system that doesn't break too much (system runs for 3 months with <= 1 breakdown), then for 12 months with <= 1 breakdown) or (option 2) It is widely publicised in the media that email around NZ will never be reliable again until the last person stops using xtra email. Note that another way of putting the first option is that Telecom is on very, very close watch.

And take note Telecom, at the end of the day we only have a passing interest in whether the problem is at Yahoo7. That is your concern, not ours. As far as we are concerned the problem is at Telecom, take ownership, and talk to us about how and when Telecom will provide a reliable email service for it's customers.

Have plan, send $NZD50m
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  Reply # 690275 23-Sep-2012 20:45 Send private message

freitasm: Still, 17 days since the first report here and no action from Telecom... At least TelstraClear investigated their side and gave a summary in the other thread.


Speaks volumes about how interested Telecom are in this product.

The article in Stuff that Tom wrote was quite interesting for what it didn't say as much as for what it did say. 

The key thing I found interesting is that Tom didn't even get a comment from the Telecom Retail Manager, the 'Telecom' comment came from the commerical business manager, the GenI guy.

My take on this space is that if it's not something that happens on a mobile device then Telecom aren't really seriously interested are they?

Telecom sent a very clear message some time ago that they weren't interested in email when they out sourced it. 

I don't really see 17 days of off and on delivery to one other provider, who seems equally disinterested in getting it sorted out, as anything other than a clear indication that these companies aren't interested in email services any more and that they really are provided as an add-junk to what ever it was you were purchasing off them.

Email with a data connection, in this space really is becoming like check in baggage on a domestic airline, and it won't be long before it joins the realm of domestic airline food.

(Ya, last time I flew, most passengers carried their bags on them selves and there was no food served at all.)








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  Reply # 690379 24-Sep-2012 08:32 Send private message

I am on an Xtra email and for some time now I have not been able to get through to several contacts including business colleagues all with clear net nz email addresses.  They have all bounced back.  I have no problems with any other emails I send out.  Can someone explain what is going on and who I can contact to get this problem sorted out.  If it is not cleared up I will be going away from xtra as my email server.  My colleagues say they are receiving emails from other servers.

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  Reply # 690380 24-Sep-2012 08:35 Send private message

lawiephillips: ... Can someone explain what is going on and who I can contact to get this problem sorted out.  


Outside Telecom no one knows for sure what's happening.

lawiephillips: If it is not cleared up I will be going away from xtra as my email server.  My colleagues say they are receiving emails from other servers.


It's agreed around here that the best option is always to use your own domain name with a service such as Google Apps, Windows Live Domains or paid services such as Google Apps, Office 365.





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  Reply # 690411 24-Sep-2012 09:36 Send private message

After having at least another 12 emails sent to various clear. net addresses bounce back to me, I just rang telecom again and complained.  A very polite lady on the other side of the world somewhere informed me that Telecom, Telstra and a third party, were aware of the problem and a team has been working on resolving the problem but there was no time frame as to when it would be fixed. She seemed surprised when I told her that it had been happening for about two weeks and it seemed to be taking a long time to sort it out.

I think that this problem needs to get a bit more resources put into solving it soonest.




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