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296 posts

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  Reply # 768765 25-Feb-2013 10:42 Send private message

BigMal: Thanks for all the replies.

Yup I agree a master filter would be the best option just strange how the connection has deteriorated over the last few years.  I see Snap will install a master splitter for $400 if I sign up for VDSL2 - is that a reasonable price or would a sparky be cheaper?

plambrechtsen I have sent you an email to your telecom address - thanks for your help.




I think that $400 is a bit much...well for me at least. You ISP can probably do it for $150 perhaps ask them?

Also coffeebaron does splitter installs, I'm getting mine done via him sometime this week :) (lots of people have recommended him in this forum). He told me the splitter he installs also has VDSL2 in case in the future you wanted to go that route.







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  Reply # 768766 25-Feb-2013 10:42 Send private message

The point being its not the master splitter that solves the problem its the new cable you are putting in at the same time and now it has its own clean line to the modem. If you run a new cable back to the demarc like mine which has no master splitter it achieves the same thing.

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  Reply # 768767 25-Feb-2013 10:45 Send private message

fellaintga: The point being its not the master splitter that solves the problem its the new cable you are putting in at the same time and now it has its own clean line to the modem. If you run a new cable back to the demarc like mine which has no master splitter it achieves the same thing.


That's a different scenario entirely - having a single jackpoint eliminates the need for a master filter. If you have multiple jackpoints a master filter should always be fitted for the best performance.


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  Reply # 768768 25-Feb-2013 10:46 Send private message

Oriphix:
BigMal: Thanks for all the replies.

Yup I agree a master filter would be the best option just strange how the connection has deteriorated over the last few years.  I see Snap will install a master splitter for $400 if I sign up for VDSL2 - is that a reasonable price or would a sparky be cheaper?

plambrechtsen I have sent you an email to your telecom address - thanks for your help.




I think that $400 is a bit much...well for me at least. You ISP can probably do it for $150 perhaps ask them?

Also coffeebaron does splitter installs, I'm getting mine done via him sometime this week :) (lots of people have recommended him in this forum). He told me the splitter he installs also has VDSL2 in case in the future you wanted to go that route.


$400 is the install price from Chorus for a new naked VDSL2 install without POTS.

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  Reply # 768769 25-Feb-2013 10:46 Send private message

The point being its not the master splitter that solves the problem its the new cable you are putting in at the same time and now it has its own clean line to the modem. If you run a new cable back to the demarc like mine which has no master splitter it achieves the same thing.



Hi, I dont agree, there is already many many meters of sub cat3 distribution cable in the street. As long as the house wiring has not been shredded then its not really the issue, the effects of stubs is however significant. While running a new cable is great, it normaly is fine to just establish a clean pair on exisitng cabling from the master filter.

Cyril

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  Reply # 768785 25-Feb-2013 11:13 Send private message

fellaintga: The point being its not the master splitter that solves the problem its the new cable you are putting in at the same time and now it has its own clean line to the modem. If you run a new cable back to the demarc like mine which has no master splitter it achieves the same thing.


Thats a comment from someone who clearly hasn't done many splitter installs at all. An old 6-way cable (not even cat 3) will happily run VDSL as long as there are no stubs off it. The mentality that if there are only a couple of jacks then ít will be sweet' is just so wrong and one of the reasons I think we see so so many VDSL lines with sub 40Mbps performance. I am yet to see VDSL go slower than 40Mbps. Haven't done a hell of a lot of VDSL installs myself but I think enough to make the comment as I have done installs right at the 1km limit and still saw outstanding performance. I say it is purely because the splitter has been installed correctly. Too many people are getting self installs because they deem their wiring to be ok for VDSL which is just wrong IMO.

You have done the right thing by just running a single cable with no stubs - cant knock that. But it is certainly not correct to tell other people 'it will be sweet' with 2-3 jacks in place.

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  Reply # 768918 25-Feb-2013 13:54 Send private message

BigMal

If you have an attenuation of ~10db, showing up as 800 meters from the cabinet.
With stats of:
Attainable bitrate [kb/s] 16,108
Actual bitrate [kb/s] 13,155

BUT.. just checked your address and the distance from the cabinet, and it's more like 100 meters... So something is very wrong there.

You've also been put onto the "short distance" profile if your attenuation is very low "RM".  Your right on the marginal level for that and I would say you should be on the "AM" profile instead for everyone else considering you're about 800 meters out.

And you have interleaving turned off.

But the bitloading isn't all that flash.



Like with everyone else, talk to Cyril7 (or I can email you his contact details with the full line test) and he can get a master filter installed for you as you're based in Wellington (and quite close to where I live!).




I work for Spark, but as always my views are my own.

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  Reply # 768926 25-Feb-2013 14:19 Send private message

chevrolux:
fellaintga: The point being its not the master splitter that solves the problem its the new cable you are putting in at the same time and now it has its own clean line to the modem. If you run a new cable back to the demarc like mine which has no master splitter it achieves the same thing.


Thats a comment from someone who clearly hasn't done many splitter installs at all. An old 6-way cable (not even cat 3) will happily run VDSL as long as there are no stubs off it. The mentality that if there are only a couple of jacks then ít will be sweet' is just so wrong and one of the reasons I think we see so so many VDSL lines with sub 40Mbps performance. I am yet to see VDSL go slower than 40Mbps. Haven't done a hell of a lot of VDSL installs myself but I think enough to make the comment as I have done installs right at the 1km limit and still saw outstanding performance. I say it is purely because the splitter has been installed correctly. Too many people are getting self installs because they deem their wiring to be ok for VDSL which is just wrong IMO.

You have done the right thing by just running a single cable with no stubs - cant knock that. But it is certainly not correct to tell other people 'it will be sweet' with 2-3 jacks in place.


Yeah but he has ADSL not VDSL and it was going fine without a splitter.  I run VDSL with sync rates of 46Mb no splitter but with a Cat5 to the demarc.  

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  Reply # 768933 25-Feb-2013 14:32 Send private message

fellaintga:
chevrolux:
fellaintga: The point being its not the master splitter that solves the problem its the new cable you are putting in at the same time and now it has its own clean line to the modem. If you run a new cable back to the demarc like mine which has no master splitter it achieves the same thing.


Thats a comment from someone who clearly hasn't done many splitter installs at all. An old 6-way cable (not even cat 3) will happily run VDSL as long as there are no stubs off it. The mentality that if there are only a couple of jacks then ít will be sweet' is just so wrong and one of the reasons I think we see so so many VDSL lines with sub 40Mbps performance. I am yet to see VDSL go slower than 40Mbps. Haven't done a hell of a lot of VDSL installs myself but I think enough to make the comment as I have done installs right at the 1km limit and still saw outstanding performance. I say it is purely because the splitter has been installed correctly. Too many people are getting self installs because they deem their wiring to be ok for VDSL which is just wrong IMO.

You have done the right thing by just running a single cable with no stubs - cant knock that. But it is certainly not correct to tell other people 'it will be sweet' with 2-3 jacks in place.


Yeah but he has ADSL not VDSL and it was going fine without a splitter.  I run VDSL with sync rates of 46Mb no splitter but with a Cat5 to the demarc.  


No... That's wrong.

ADSL can perform EXTREMELY poorly without a Master Filter installed.  If you have a single cable that runs from the ETP / Demarc with no joints what so ever and don't have a home phone connected then that's fine.  But the vast majority of houses are either in a series or star internal wiring configuration.  Star tends to be worse for noise injection, but series can be equally as bad if there is a jackpoint that is rusty and all sorts of other issues.

A master filter is the sure fire way to get the best broadband speed no matter if it's ADSL or VDSL and I have seen an average speed increase of between 50-100%.  The worst was only 3mb on a 15mb (15-18mb).. Most often the speed increases by at least 50%, if not doubling.




I work for Spark, but as always my views are my own.

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  Reply # 768955 25-Feb-2013 14:56

plambrechtsen:  but series can be equally as bad if there is a jackpoint that is rusty and all sorts of other issues.



3 wire jackpoints corroded badly. There would have been a marked improvement with 2 wiring but that happened a long time ago. With ADSL1 there was a lot of work proving the viability of splitters. Are the improvements from master  filters now a sign that a lot of internal wiring is reaching end of life?

In my own case ADSL2 speeds around 10-12M with either arrangement.

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  Reply # 768961 25-Feb-2013 15:13 Send private message

Bung:
plambrechtsen:  but series can be equally as bad if there is a jackpoint that is rusty and all sorts of other issues.



3 wire jackpoints corroded badly. There would have been a marked improvement with 2 wiring but that happened a long time ago. With ADSL1 there was a lot of work proving the viability of splitters. Are the improvements from master  filters now a sign that a lot of internal wiring is reaching end of life?

In my own case ADSL2 speeds around 10-12M with either arrangement.


I think it's more that bridged taps affect higher frequencies far greater than lower frequencies, so the impact on ADSL2+ which is up to 2.2Mhz and VDSL2 which is 8MHz or 17Mhz is far greater than ADSL which was only up to 1.1Mhz.

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  Reply # 770044 25-Feb-2013 18:41 Send private message

fellaintga:
chevrolux:
fellaintga: The point being its not the master splitter that solves the problem its the new cable you are putting in at the same time and now it has its own clean line to the modem. If you run a new cable back to the demarc like mine which has no master splitter it achieves the same thing.



You have done the right thing by just running a single cable with no stubs - cant knock that. .


Yeah but he has ADSL not VDSL and it was going fine without a splitter.  I run VDSL with sync rates of 46Mb no splitter but with a Cat5 to the demarc.  


good work on not reading the post. You have removed all your stubs and therefore reduced the need (not eliminated) for a splitter.
Spliiter's are not just about filtering out voice. It 'stabilises' the line, for want of a better term. Cyril is the man who can explain this better.



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  Reply # 770054 25-Feb-2013 19:05 Send private message

Thanks heaps for your help.   I must admit a lot of this info is getting a bit over my head now but I'll try and keep up.

plambrechtsen: BigMal
If you have an attenuation of ~10db, showing up as 800 meters from the cabinet.
With stats of:
Attainable bitrate [kb/s] 16,108
Actual bitrate [kb/s] 13,155

BUT.. just checked your address and the distance from the cabinet, and it's more like 100 meters... So something is very wrong there.


What does this mean?  Like you say I am physically around 100 metres from the cabinet but the attenuation implies I am 800 metres?  Would a master filter fix this?  Why am I showing as 800 metres away?


You've also been put onto the "short distance" profile if your attenuation is very low "RM".  Your right on the marginal level for that and I would say you should be on the "AM" profile instead for everyone else considering you're about 800 meters out.


I'm not 800 metres though am I?  


And you have interleaving turned off.
 

Yeah I have requested Telecom turn this back on via their email portal but they're not very good at actioning via email.  Guess I'll have to call.


But the bitloading isn't all that flash.
 

Would a master filter fix this also?


Like with everyone else, talk to Cyril7 (or I can email you his contact details with the full line test) and he can get a master filter installed for you as you're based in Wellington (and quite close to where I live!).


Sounds like the master filter is the way to go.  I can contact Cycril7, no need to trouble you any further, thanks for all your help so far.  

I rung Snap today and they said VDSL should be very fast based on my location, the cabinet and my current ADSL2 speeds.  If I get the master filter as well then I should be roaring.

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  Reply # 770057 25-Feb-2013 19:14 Send private message

Hi, as mentioned in my first post, just because you are next to the cabinet does not mean the cable does not go up the other side of the street then return down your side.

Cyril



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  Reply # 770060 25-Feb-2013 19:37 Send private message

cyril7: Hi, as mentioned in my first post, just because you are next to the cabinet does not mean the cable does not go up the other side of the street then return down your side.

Cyril


Yup got ya but I originally started out with an 18Mb sync rate so the potential is there, sounds like a master filter will be the solution I need, especially for VDSL.

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