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## johntynz

116 posts

Master Geek

 Reply # 1100075 1-Aug-2014 14:58 itxtme: Demeter:Consider the population densities per square kilometer of countries overseas in relation to New Zealand. Consider how many more prospective customers there are available to each network carrier, how much per customer it costs the carrier to do a network roll-out and the subsequent return on investment those customers offer and then do some basic math. I'm sure the answer will become apparent eventually.So you can hand on heart say that the profit margin on data is not higher than that of calling and texting? all three of these items are measured differently?

## itxtme

1444 posts

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 Reply # 1100108 1-Aug-2014 15:43 johntynz: itxtme: Demeter:Consider the population densities per square kilometer of countries overseas in relation to New Zealand. Consider how many more prospective customers there are available to each network carrier, how much per customer it costs the carrier to do a network roll-out and the subsequent return on investment those customers offer and then do some basic math. I'm sure the answer will become apparent eventually.So you can hand on heart say that the profit margin on data is not higher than that of calling and texting? all three of these items are measured differently?Yep, if we asses each for their individual fixed and variable costs / the income.  Therefore making them comparible.  I am not wanting a comparison of 1 txt vs 1 minute of calling vs 1Mb of data, but a comparison on how much of every dollar spent on data is profit vs calling and text.I surmise that the margin on data is significantly higher than txt or voice, and I question why.

## Yabanize

1930 posts

Uber Geek

 Reply # 1100109 1-Aug-2014 15:43 You can get unlimited NZ and Aus calling on Skinny for \$40 a month along with unlimited texts and 250mb data

## NonprayingMantis

6416 posts

Uber Geek

 Reply # 1100118 1-Aug-2014 15:58 One person supports this post itxtme: johntynz: itxtme: Demeter:Consider the population densities per square kilometer of countries overseas in relation to New Zealand. Consider how many more prospective customers there are available to each network carrier, how much per customer it costs the carrier to do a network roll-out and the subsequent return on investment those customers offer and then do some basic math. I'm sure the answer will become apparent eventually.So you can hand on heart say that the profit margin on data is not higher than that of calling and texting? all three of these items are measured differently?Yep, if we asses each for their individual fixed and variable costs / the income.  Therefore making them comparible.  I am not wanting a comparison of 1 txt vs 1 minute of calling vs 1Mb of data, but a comparison on how much of every dollar spent on data is profit vs calling and text.I surmise that the margin on data is significantly higher than txt or voice, and I question why.It;s hard when so much stuff is bundled now, so it's not possible to say with 100% certainty.  But generally accepted wisdom is that dollar for dollar of revenue,  data is a lot more network intensive than either voice or sms.  i.e. \$1 'worth' of data uses a much higher amount of network capacity than \$1 of voice minutes or SMS. Therefore voice and sms is vastly more profitable than data is.

## ajw

1302 posts

Uber Geek

 Reply # 1100138 1-Aug-2014 16:32 NonprayingMantis: itxtme: johntynz: itxtme: Demeter:Consider the population densities per square kilometer of countries overseas in relation to New Zealand. Consider how many more prospective customers there are available to each network carrier, how much per customer it costs the carrier to do a network roll-out and the subsequent return on investment those customers offer and then do some basic math. I'm sure the answer will become apparent eventually.So you can hand on heart say that the profit margin on data is not higher than that of calling and texting? all three of these items are measured differently?Yep, if we asses each for their individual fixed and variable costs / the income.  Therefore making them comparible.  I am not wanting a comparison of 1 txt vs 1 minute of calling vs 1Mb of data, but a comparison on how much of every dollar spent on data is profit vs calling and text.I surmise that the margin on data is significantly higher than txt or voice, and I question why.It;s hard when so much stuff is bundled now, so it's not possible to say with 100% certainty.  But generally accepted wisdom is that dollar for dollar of revenue,  data is a lot more network intensive than either voice or sms.  i.e. \$1 'worth' of data uses a much higher amount of network capacity than \$1 of voice minutes or SMS. Therefore voice and sms is vastly more profitable than data is.Is it true that LTE gives a bigger return on investment and is more spectrally efficient  than a circuit switched HSPA network.

## Quibbler

65 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

 Reply # 1100143 1-Aug-2014 16:38 ajw: NonprayingMantis: itxtme: johntynz: itxtme: Demeter:Consider the population densities per square kilometer of countries overseas in relation to New Zealand. Consider how many more prospective customers there are available to each network carrier, how much per customer it costs the carrier to do a network roll-out and the subsequent return on investment those customers offer and then do some basic math. I'm sure the answer will become apparent eventually.So you can hand on heart say that the profit margin on data is not higher than that of calling and texting? all three of these items are measured differently?Yep, if we asses each for their individual fixed and variable costs / the income.  Therefore making them comparible.  I am not wanting a comparison of 1 txt vs 1 minute of calling vs 1Mb of data, but a comparison on how much of every dollar spent on data is profit vs calling and text.I surmise that the margin on data is significantly higher than txt or voice, and I question why.It;s hard when so much stuff is bundled now, so it's not possible to say with 100% certainty.  But generally accepted wisdom is that dollar for dollar of revenue,  data is a lot more network intensive than either voice or sms.  i.e. \$1 'worth' of data uses a much higher amount of network capacity than \$1 of voice minutes or SMS. Therefore voice and sms is vastly more profitable than data is.Is it true that LTE gives a bigger return on investment and is more spectrally efficient  than a circuit switched HSPA network. that is true

## itxtme

1444 posts

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Subscriber

 Reply # 1100162 1-Aug-2014 16:52 NonprayingMantis: It;s hard when so much stuff is bundled now, so it's not possible to say with 100% certainty.  But generally accepted wisdom is that dollar for dollar of revenue,  data is a lot more network intensive than either voice or sms.  i.e. \$1 'worth' of data uses a much higher amount of network capacity than \$1 of voice minutes or SMS. Therefore voice and sms is vastly more profitable than data is.My goodness, you are not thinking profit margin, you are still stuck thinking about the value of \$1 worth of data which depends on how much a user pays. Different products have different profit margins, petrol as an example has a very low profit margin of around 5%, clothing very high say 150%.  Now if say mobile calling is 30% and txting is 30% explain to me why data should 70%?Trust me when I say that the telcos know EXACTLY how much each of their products cost them, they didnt just come up with the price out of thin air.  Its is fixed costs + Variable costs + desired margin = price.The reality is data is very expensive in NZ, the Vodafone rep indicated that was because of X Y Z.  My suggestion is that they can compete in voice and text but data is prohibitively expensive - but only* in NZ.  No telco rep will truthfully "hand on heart" tell us they are not gouging data prices, but I knew that when I asked it, was merely making a point!*gross generlisation but you know what I mean...

## Quibbler

65 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

 Reply # 1100168 1-Aug-2014 16:57 itxtme: NonprayingMantis: It;s hard when so much stuff is bundled now, so it's not possible to say with 100% certainty.  But generally accepted wisdom is that dollar for dollar of revenue,  data is a lot more network intensive than either voice or sms.  i.e. \$1 'worth' of data uses a much higher amount of network capacity than \$1 of voice minutes or SMS. Therefore voice and sms is vastly more profitable than data is.My goodness, you are not thinking profit margin, you are still stuck thinking about the value of \$1 worth of data which depends on how much a user pays. Different products have different profit margins, petrol as an example has a very low profit margin of around 5%, clothing very high say 150%.  Now if say mobile calling is 30% and txting is 30% explain to me why data should 70%?Trust me when I say that the telcos know EXACTLY how much each of their products cost them, they didnt just come up with the price out of thin air.  Its is fixed costs + Variable costs + desired margin = price.The reality is data is very expensive in NZ, the Vodafone rep indicated that was because of X Y Z.  My suggestion is that they can compete in voice and text but data is prohibitively expensive - but only* in NZ.  No telco rep will truthfully "hand on heart" tell us they are not gouging data prices, but I knew that when I asked it, was merely making a point!*gross generlisation but you know what I mean... Two Degrees have been very generous with their data offerings.

## coffeebaron

4861 posts

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 Reply # 1100182 1-Aug-2014 17:08 One person supports this post itxtme: surmise that the margin on data is significantly higher than txt or voice, and I question why.Really? From a data perspective, 1GB of data can pack approx 2000 mins of voice. So I think voice has a higher margin as it costs a lot less than data to move. Chorus has spent \$1.4 billion on making their xDSL broadband network faster. If your still stuck on ADSL or VDSL, why not spend from \$150 on a master filter install to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?I install - Naked DSL, DSL Master Splitters, VoIP, data cabling and general computer support for home and small business.Rural Broadband RBI installer for Ultimate Broadband and Full Flavour  Need help in Auckland, Waikato or BoP? Click my email button, or email me direct: [my user name] at geekzonemail dot com

## itxtme

1444 posts

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 Reply # 1100194 1-Aug-2014 17:25 ... Wouldnt that depend on the cost per minute of calling????? Everyone is ignoring the fact we dont know the profit margin, using arguments like data throughput, but that is not an indication as to how profitable data charges are at the moment.In your opinion is mobile data good value for money in NZ?

## Quibbler

65 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

 Reply # 1100195 1-Aug-2014 17:30 itxtme: ... Wouldnt that depend on the cost per minute of calling????? Everyone is ignoring the fact we dont know the profit margin, using arguments like data throughput, but that is not an indication as to how profitable data charges are at the moment.In your opinion is mobile data good value for money in NZ?  no not at all

## jeffnz

2835 posts

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 Reply # 1100202 1-Aug-2014 17:41 Quibbler: itxtme: ... Wouldnt that depend on the cost per minute of calling????? Everyone is ignoring the fact we dont know the profit margin, using arguments like data throughput, but that is not an indication as to how profitable data charges are at the moment.In your opinion is mobile data good value for money in NZ?  no not at allso what are you basing that on or is it just you want to pay less like everyone else.Having a look at Telstra in Oz they have a \$55 plan 12 month contract with only 1.5gb per month so is that better than here given their size, doesn't look like it but only one I looked at. Galaxy S7 Edge  Garmin  Vivoactive HR

## Quibbler

65 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

 Reply # 1100219 1-Aug-2014 17:43 jeffnz: Quibbler: itxtme: ... Wouldnt that depend on the cost per minute of calling????? Everyone is ignoring the fact we dont know the profit margin, using arguments like data throughput, but that is not an indication as to how profitable data charges are at the moment.In your opinion is mobile data good value for money in NZ?  no not at allso what are you basing that on or is it just you want to pay less like everyone else.Having a look at Telstra in Oz they have a \$55 plan 12 month contract with only 1.5gb per month so is that better than here given their size, doesn't look like it but only one I looked at. There's a mobile company in Aussie (I can't remember the name) that have been adverting on Animal Planet a Mobile plan with 4GB of data and unlimited calling and texting across Australia for \$39 a month

## jeffnz

2835 posts

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 Reply # 1100227 1-Aug-2014 17:55 Quibbler: jeffnz: Quibbler: itxtme: ... Wouldnt that depend on the cost per minute of calling????? Everyone is ignoring the fact we dont know the profit margin, using arguments like data throughput, but that is not an indication as to how profitable data charges are at the moment.In your opinion is mobile data good value for money in NZ?  no not at allso what are you basing that on or is it just you want to pay less like everyone else.Having a look at Telstra in Oz they have a \$55 plan 12 month contract with only 1.5gb per month so is that better than here given their size, doesn't look like it but only one I looked at. There's a company in Aussie that have been adverting on Animal Planet a Mobile plan with 4GB of data and unlimited calling and texting across Australia for \$39 a month well they can't be much of a threat if a company like Telstra has charges like it does.My point is are we that badly off given pricing has been coming down in last year or so and data up. I think you can always find someone cheaper but the grass isn't always greener so what are we getting annoyed about.edit: I see the cheap plan and that is cheap but also notice its only 3g Galaxy S7 Edge  Garmin  Vivoactive HR

## johntynz

116 posts

Master Geek

 Reply # 1100247 1-Aug-2014 18:24 3 people support this post i fear this thread has been derailed :(
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