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  Reply # 998227 3-Mar-2014 15:24 Send private message

coffeebaron:
hio77:
Geektastic: OK.

And why are they apparently bad?


they dont have master filters installed as part of the vdsl installation, which can be pretty destructive to the customer themselves experience, and others in the same cable bundle as them. to many respects, its certainly by no imagination the smartest move.

ild hate to see an influx of people looking for a cheap vdsl connection rolling to them, then being upset when they are told they should go ask coffeebarron for a splitter, because their line obviously is in dire need of it (which honestly, every line without one is, to many respects.)


Remember Snap and other ISP's initially made Master Filters optional too.

Either way there is a cost whether:
- Chorus install and charge over 30 months
- Chorus install and charge one lump some
- A third party installs and charges their going price




they did, but then it is now bundled in, which makes sure in-optional installations shouldnt happen.. 

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  Reply # 998235 3-Mar-2014 15:38 Send private message

hio77:
coffeebaron:
hio77:
Geektastic: OK.

And why are they apparently bad?


they dont have master filters installed as part of the vdsl installation, which can be pretty destructive to the customer themselves experience, and others in the same cable bundle as them. to many respects, its certainly by no imagination the smartest move.

ild hate to see an influx of people looking for a cheap vdsl connection rolling to them, then being upset when they are told they should go ask coffeebarron for a splitter, because their line obviously is in dire need of it (which honestly, every line without one is, to many respects.)


Remember Snap and other ISP's initially made Master Filters optional too.

Either way there is a cost whether:
- Chorus install and charge over 30 months
- Chorus install and charge one lump some
- A third party installs and charges their going price




they did, but then it is now bundled in, which makes sure in-optional installations shouldnt happen.. 

But its only bundled in under a term. As BigPipe do open term, there would be a full one off cost.





Chorus has spent $1.4 billion on making their ADSL broadband network faster. Why not spend a couple of hundred to make sure you are getting the most out of your connection?
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  Reply # 998236 3-Mar-2014 15:40 Send private message

coffeebaron: 
But its only bundled in under a term. As BigPipe do open term, there would be a full one off cost.



that is true, i really would just expect them to have upfront costs for it assuming they dont have a filter though.

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  Reply # 998282 3-Mar-2014 17:01 Send private message

@hio77

Pretty sure not having a splitter installed affects everyone in the cable bundle out on the street



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  Reply # 998291 3-Mar-2014 17:16 Send private message

hio77:
sbiddle:
Cbfd: If you have naked vdsl and one jack connected then you dont need a hardwired splitter


No you don't.. But that type of setup would be common in about 0.01% of NZ homes. By far the most common setup is 3+ jacks wired in series, and in more cases than not a mix of M/S and 2wire jacks as people upgrade things over the years.





and this is exactly why i have the strong position on it.


if your house has a single jackpoint, sure, you dont need one. but what are the chances of getting a house like that....


Ours was exactly like that until I had the electricians extend the line into a new office.








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  Reply # 998296 3-Mar-2014 17:30 One person supports this post Send private message

Cbfd: @hio77

Pretty sure not having a splitter installed affects everyone in the cable bundle out on the street


A poor connection won't automatically impact other users, but VDSL2 uses UPBO to control power levels in an attempt to minimise cross talk.

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  Reply # 998303 3-Mar-2014 17:52 Send private message

Geektastic:
hio77:
sbiddle:
Cbfd: If you have naked vdsl and one jack connected then you dont need a hardwired splitter


No you don't.. But that type of setup would be common in about 0.01% of NZ homes. By far the most common setup is 3+ jacks wired in series, and in more cases than not a mix of M/S and 2wire jacks as people upgrade things over the years.





and this is exactly why i have the strong position on it.


if your house has a single jackpoint, sure, you dont need one. but what are the chances of getting a house like that....


Ours was exactly like that until I had the electricians extend the line into a new office.


My house previously had a monitored alarm (which we don't use), so there was already a master filter there (VDSL compatible, I checked) when I moved in.  No need for me to pay for a new one.

What happens with a master filter for things like apartments/MDUs?  Can a master filter even be installed there?

Have there been any actual reports yet of VDSL (without a splitter) interfering with other people's connections in NZ? there wewre quite a lot of connections done like this up until last year when Chorus changed the way it was billde (august 2013?)  
I would hope Chorus know a little bit about their network so would make it mandatory quick sharp if it was causing actual (rather than just theoretical) problems. 





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  Reply # 998305 3-Mar-2014 17:55 One person supports this post Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
Geektastic:
hio77:
sbiddle:
Cbfd: If you have naked vdsl and one jack connected then you dont need a hardwired splitter


No you don't.. But that type of setup would be common in about 0.01% of NZ homes. By far the most common setup is 3+ jacks wired in series, and in more cases than not a mix of M/S and 2wire jacks as people upgrade things over the years.





and this is exactly why i have the strong position on it.


if your house has a single jackpoint, sure, you dont need one. but what are the chances of getting a house like that....


Ours was exactly like that until I had the electricians extend the line into a new office.


My house previously had a monitored alarm (which we don't use), so there was already a master filter there (VDSL compatible, I checked) when I moved in.  No need for me to pay for a new one.

What happens with a master filter for things like apartments/MDUs?  Can a master filter even be installed there?

Have there been any actual reports yet of VDSL (without a splitter) interfering with other people's connections?  I would hope Chorus know a little bit about their network so would make it mandatory quick sharp if it was causing actual (rather than theoretical) problems. 






bit hard to prove if a VDSL connection is affecting someone elses VDSL connection in a cable group

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  Reply # 998306 3-Mar-2014 17:56 Send private message

sbiddle:
Cbfd: @hio77

Pretty sure not having a splitter installed affects everyone in the cable bundle out on the street


A poor connection won't automatically impact other users, but VDSL2 uses UPBO to control power levels in an attempt to minimise cross talk.


so the impact isnt that much tbh - looking at maybe 2-3mbit lost from a sync rate when we tested it a while ago 

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  Reply # 998308 3-Mar-2014 17:58 Send private message

Cbfd:
NonprayingMantis:
Geektastic:
hio77:
sbiddle:
Cbfd: If you have naked vdsl and one jack connected then you dont need a hardwired splitter


No you don't.. But that type of setup would be common in about 0.01% of NZ homes. By far the most common setup is 3+ jacks wired in series, and in more cases than not a mix of M/S and 2wire jacks as people upgrade things over the years.





and this is exactly why i have the strong position on it.


if your house has a single jackpoint, sure, you dont need one. but what are the chances of getting a house like that....


Ours was exactly like that until I had the electricians extend the line into a new office.


My house previously had a monitored alarm (which we don't use), so there was already a master filter there (VDSL compatible, I checked) when I moved in.  No need for me to pay for a new one.

What happens with a master filter for things like apartments/MDUs?  Can a master filter even be installed there?

Have there been any actual reports yet of VDSL (without a splitter) interfering with other people's connections?  I would hope Chorus know a little bit about their network so would make it mandatory quick sharp if it was causing actual (rather than theoretical) problems. 






bit hard to prove if a VDSL connection is affecting someone elses VDSL connection in a cable group


Why?  wouldn't people start complaining about how their speed has massively dropped, and wouldn't chorus be able to see this happening once the non-filtered VDSL went in?


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  Reply # 998317 3-Mar-2014 18:30 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:

Why?  wouldn't people start complaining about how their speed has massively dropped, and wouldn't chorus be able to see this happening once the non-filtered VDSL went in?



kinda requires chorus to actually look at it more than a standard tech would though.. which would be pushing your luck ... 


we have seen lines on here, which have gone down over time, its pretty easy to assume from that, crosstalk has affected it. 


proving that though, is a little hard to get to...

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  Reply # 998323 3-Mar-2014 18:35 Send private message

Chorus will usually just turn around and say the speed is within chorus specs -



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  Reply # 998340 3-Mar-2014 18:49 One person supports this post Send private message

If only Coffeebaron lived nearer...!








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  Reply # 998342 3-Mar-2014 18:56 Send private message

Cbfd: Chorus will usually just turn around and say the speed is within chorus specs -


and thats exactly my point, its next to impossible to prove it, if thats the stock standard reply. 

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  Reply # 998405 3-Mar-2014 20:43 Send private message

hio77:
Cbfd: Chorus will usually just turn around and say the speed is within chorus specs -


and thats exactly my point, its next to impossible to prove it, if thats the stock standard reply. 


so, playing devils adocate, if it's impossible to prove, how big will the effect really be?  

going by what you have been saying, customers are going to be having an absolutely awful experience without a master filter (and causing an awful experience to other VDSL users),  but if the effect is too small to be able to prove, that doesn't seem to gel with that.

I mean, without a filter are we talking constant drop outs for all VDSL users on the cabinet, and 10-30Mbps sync reductions,  or are we talking a 2-3Mbps sync reduction?

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