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  Reply # 499434 29-Jul-2011 14:21 Send private message

Well if I move to naked dsl, then I won't be connected to the telecom pstn network any more right?



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  Reply # 499439 29-Jul-2011 14:29 Send private message

I think I am still struggling to understand the concept of isolating the cabling for the correct connection to the ATA, is there recommended reading I can undertake to try and understand.

As I understand it, all my analogue phones are on a single "circuit"


phone1 phone2 Phone3 P4/adsl masterjackpoint telecom demarc
|-------------|-------------|--------------|--------------------------------------------|

in order for incoming calls once my number is ported across to 2talk to work, I can plug the ata into any jackpoint and all phones will ring, but outgoing calls, the ATA will need to be connected at the demarc, so that it captures all phones on the cable?

Sorry I may be being stupid, but I am struggling to understand!

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  Reply # 499452 29-Jul-2011 14:55 Send private message

Where are you?

You really need someone with phone clue to do the wiring for you.

With VDSL you need to isolate the line from the house wiring anyway so that it doesn't impact the performance.

Depending on the quality of the house wiring, it might be that you need to run a fresh cable from the demark point rather than using the old house wiring as well.

With out actually seeing it, it's hard to comment.

As for ATA set up... have you picked on yet?

Edit:  If you want someone to explain it, ring me on 03 348 7235 - seriously... we could go round all day with posts :)






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  Reply # 499499 29-Jul-2011 16:42 Send private message

networkn: Well if I move to naked dsl, then I won't be connected to the telecom pstn network any more right?


No. You're still connected to the PSTN, this is how you get your internet.


Like Don suggested I think you should employ the services of somebody who does this sort of stuff or you're going to cause yourself some serious grief.
    



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  Reply # 499503 29-Jul-2011 17:07 Send private message

I think for now I'll stick with traditional line and be done with it. I am too busy right now to muck around with this, especially since it's not going to work out much cheaper by the time you buy ATA's etc. I make it to be less than $14 base rate difference between naked dsl and standard with all the services attached. By the time you spend $150 on an ATA or thereabouts, maybe needing two, a person to come onsite to wire it all up, say $100, it's gonna take a while before you see a saving.

Don, thanks for your offer of assistance, I am pretty flu ridden today, so I won't call you today, but at some point in the future if I decide on VOIP I may take you up on your kind offer.

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  Reply # 499515 29-Jul-2011 17:56 Send private message

networkn:  especially since it's not going to work out much cheaper by the time you buy ATA's etc.


My key motivation was to save money... interestingly I'm not saving anything now.

The advantage of two phone lines and call minutes has lead us to simply use the phone more.

I also like the massive range of features I ended up with.  I'm still figuring out how to use some of them.  But I love being able to pick up my calls on my mobile for nothing when I'm in the house, rather than having to dash for a handset some where.

We do tend to argue about who gets to use the cordless with the headset more though...

for Networkkn, it should be as much about the features as the cost.  VDSL just shouldn't compare.  I have HFC and having 2mbit upload is a massive difference.  The .5 that you get off ADSL just makes some tasks annoying.  Though I confess I host servers at home so I don't have to mess about with slow uploads most of the time.






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  Reply # 499516 29-Jul-2011 18:01 Send private message

I like the features of VOIP, but mostly the reason to move would be cost savings which don't seem to add up since we don't make more calls. I don't understand why there is a $30 a month difference between naked and dressed dsl, it kills the main advantage of cost savings.

I may just run VOIP from our cellphones via wifi when my vdsl is connected and see what happens.

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  Reply # 499526 29-Jul-2011 18:32 Send private message

networkn: I like the features of VOIP, but mostly the reason to move would be cost savings which don't seem to add up since we don't make more calls. I don't understand why there is a $30 a month difference between naked and dressed dsl, it kills the main advantage of cost savings.

I may just run VOIP from our cellphones via wifi when my vdsl is connected and see what happens.


You do need good wifi and good mobiles to do that.

My 8150 only just keeps up, and not well.  I suspect a better phone would give much better results.

The phone co's aren't stupid.  They're pricing their product so there isn't an avalanche exit to VoIP.

Calls from my home phone to my mobile are a fraction of my PSTN service to mobile, but if you have mobile to mobile minutes then you're right, it's not worth it.

But you have to be thinking in terms of over all value, not just the bottom line.   VoIP was a cheap answer, it's getting less so because as I said, telco's aren't stupid.

For me it's a no brainer.  I have access to the HFC network, so it seemed really stupid to be using two networks when I could get it all on one, which would have to be costing the telco more money to maintain two networks.

I figure if I want a lower cost for me then I have to consolidate my stuff better, so I did.

In the case of Telecom customers, the sooner everyone exists the old NEAX gear, the sooner they can turn it all off and remove that cost.  Then their profits will go up, which if they make to much profit then they'll drop prices or spend more in the community... if all that sort of makes any sense.






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  Reply # 499534 29-Jul-2011 19:05 Send private message

DonGould: In the case of Telecom customers, the sooner everyone exists the old NEAX gear, the sooner they can turn it all off and remove that cost.? Then their profits will go up, which if they make to much profit then they'll drop prices or spend more in the community... if all that sort of makes any sense.




Haven't you heard that the NEAXs are being kept until 2020?? What do you propose replaces the old NEAX COs??




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  Reply # 499538 29-Jul-2011 19:09 Send private message

old3eyes: Haven't you heard that the NEAXs are being kept until 2020??


No.

old3eyes: What do you propose replaces the old NEAX COs??


No idea.  I don't know enough about carrier telephony to have a view on that, but I'd be interested to hear from others.






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  Reply # 499562 29-Jul-2011 19:56 Send private message

DonGould: In the case of Telecom customers, the sooner everyone exists the old NEAX gear, the sooner they can turn it all off and remove that cost.  Then their profits will go up, which if they make to much profit then they'll drop prices or spend more in the community... if all that sort of makes any sense.




How *exactly* will Telecom's profits go up by replacing the NEAX's?

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  Reply # 499568 29-Jul-2011 20:19 Send private message

sbiddle: How *exactly* will Telecom's profits go up by replacing the NEAX's?


I can't answer that *exactly*, sorry.  I don't know anything about Telecom's cost structure on that gear.

Speculation suggests that by pushing soft switching into the network some where, you'd free up building space and reduce power usage and maintenance of all the E side copper that runs from the exchange to the new FTTN nodes.

But what I don't know is what that kit is actually costing them to keep running.

I'm sure they have spares to burn, given the growth of competitors on new systems.

But again, I really don't have a clue past the very obvious speculation.

Personally I'm choosing VoIP because it just makes sense in my own mind. 

Last year I was stuck on a providers PSTN service.  Now I have a whole lot of choice and I can move quickly and easily. 

All I have to do is plug data into my router and every think I own will just work.  I could flick to fibre in hours, or use a wireless provider or use my home phone 2Deg data.

I can relocate my business as fast as unplugging my router and plugging it in to another data provider at a new location.  I don't have to ring anyone, or do anything, I just move.

IP seems far more flexible to me.

Yip, the obvious outcome of that is that my providers are going to be on their game to make sure I get a great quality service at the price that represents good value.

Is that good for Telecom?  I don't know, that's something that Paul would have to answer I guess. :)









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  Reply # 499583 29-Jul-2011 20:59 Send private message

Biggest problem is *nothing* will ever deliver the uptime or performance of the NEAX platform. The switches are probably the single most reliable of large scale IT infrastructure in NZ. There are NEAX switches that have never suffered an outage or failure in 20+ years.

Does VoIP offer advantages? Yes it does - that's why I love VoIP and deploy VoIP systems on a daily basis.

Telecom can't just go and buy a few PC's and deploy a few Asterisk and Freeswitch boxes and make a 2talk clone. Any PLV replacement needs to be a rock solid carrier grade solution that replaces the core of the PSTN on NZ - a network that ever other telco in NZ relies on in one way or another, even if it's just for interconnection of calls. That isn't a cheap solution, and while the NEAX switches are still going strong, fully supported by NEC who still make parts, there doesn't existing a good busines case to replace them.

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  Reply # 499585 29-Jul-2011 21:09 Send private message

sbiddle: ... carrier grade solution that replaces the core of the PSTN on NZ...


And here lies in the problem. While Google has demonstrated the power of using commodity hardware to power their infrastructure, it's not cheap. They invested in research, specification and it's all commodity in the parts, but manufactured to their specifications.

Telecommunications on the other hand has a much more strict set of rules, and telcos are not in the business of breaking these rules. They are in the business of providing a dial tone and charging for it.

Anything that prevents that dial tone reaching your handset is a money loss proposition...








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  Reply # 499611 29-Jul-2011 22:28 Send private message

I was horrified to find out that at home, a dialtone via pstn costs a whopping $50 a month! I was pretty gobsmacked by that! Though I am still at a loss to understand how naked dsl costs more than standard DSL.

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