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  Reply # 517827 6-Sep-2011 22:29 Send private message

sbiddle:  not Telecom.



Steve again, thanks for outlining how the processes work currently.  I'm sure I won't be the only one interested in how this stuff works.

With respect to Telecom, my view is that Telecom is a private company and has no social obligation at all.  They provide the 111 service today because they're paid to and they're still the sensible choice because of their size (but even that is changing).

With respect to 'who is 111'.  Yes, that's exactly why I suggested Telecom.

Telecom should simply be paid to collect the information.  Most towns have a telecom store and telecom staff understand telephone numbers and have the computing plat forms in place to deal with this sort of stuff.

I was going to suggest that you should just walk into any police station, but they don't have the level of computing systems, don't understand phone numbers and have the sort of set up to deal with such issues effectively in my view - what's more, there are more telecom stores than police stations in my area.

But if I was going to be really fair, then in my view everyone with a phone retail store should be able to update this information for people.  But what's more, it should be controlled via a central government web site and a simple system of validation in place such as the address validation at TradeMe.

Seriously, this is pathetic.  I can validate my address with trademe with more than enough validity for emergency services and it costs me nothing to do.

I put my address on line and they post me a letter with a code to confirm the location details.








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  Reply # 517840 6-Sep-2011 22:47 Send private message

I'm still totally lost here as to what this has to do with Telecom or why you think they should be responsible for collecting your details. Your relationship is with your telco. Is is their job to do this. Are they doing this now? I don't know because they're not my telco.

If you change your address you don't contact NZ post to change the billing address of every piece of mail you get. While they can provide a forwarding service it's up to you to contact businesses that you have a relationship with to update their details to ensure your mail is addressed correctly in the first place.





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  Reply # 517843 6-Sep-2011 22:55 Send private message

Ok well now I am really pissed off, this is now 6 calls and 4 ticket updates and still no one number. I'm pretty much done with these monkeys.

I am thinking VFX at this point, can someone confirm they do the following things:

1) Quick Port of my Number
2) Do they offer any plans which reduce the mobile calling rates?
3) Can I have multiple devices such as 2 ATA's and 2 Android phones all ringing when someone calls our home number?
4) Can I transfer calls between phones?
5) Do they have services like do not disturb and wake up call?
6) Most importantly, I have linksys SPA2102's and a Zyxel P-850 Router on VDSL, I know a client of mine is with WXC and whenever anything goes wrong with his VOIP stuff they tell him to put in sanctioned gear, which would be quite frustrating as I already invested in what I have.
7) Do they offer auto provisioning? Does this handle setting calling tones to ones similar to what we had with our analog systems?

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  Reply # 517851 6-Sep-2011 23:12 Send private message

Topic kinda went off there for a bit

As I said in your other post not all sip clients can handle the -1 -2 -3 .
I think I read that you say it will register when you use a 028 number so just use that and use 2talk's locate me feature in hunt mode, one number not needed, or put your primary number in your droid phone and the -1 -2 etc
in the SPA2102's they do work with it.





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  Reply # 517878 7-Sep-2011 05:59 Send private message

techmeister: I would just like to point out that with 2talk if you want to use a non 2talk number as your caller ID you must first verify the number, it is not case of put any caller ID you want.


Doesn't matter this is wrong and is CLI ID spoofing, you own the number but the number is allocated to a SP network for a reason, spoofing the ID on another Network is wrong




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  Reply # 517879 7-Sep-2011 06:21 Send private message

networkn: Ok well now I am really pissed off, this is now 6 calls and 4 ticket updates and still no one number. I'm pretty much done with these monkeys.

I am thinking VFX at this point, can someone confirm they do the following things:

1) Quick Port of my Number --- Generally pretty quick, we have a B2B Sytsem
2) Do they offer any plans which reduce the mobile calling rates? ---- Yep
3) Can I have multiple devices such as 2 ATA's and 2 Android phones all ringing when someone calls our home number? Not at present we have the capability but hasn't been offered yet, being looked at.
4) Can I transfer calls between phones? ---- Yes
5) Do they have services like do not disturb and wake up call?  ---- Yes and NO http://www.xnet.co.nz/s/cms_page_media/7/1.1.4_VFX_Product_Guide.pdf http://www.xnet.co.nz/s/cms_page_media/42/Advanced_Feature_set_guide.pdf
6) Most importantly, I have linksys SPA2102's and a Zyxel P-850 Router on VDSL, I know a client of mine is with WXC and whenever anything goes wrong with his VOIP stuff they tell him to put in sanctioned gear, which would be quite frustrating as I already invested in what I have.  - The 2102's are fully supported with auto provisioning for this exact reason, when devices are not provisioned by us we how are the support staff expected to know what the customer has done, they could be on the phone for hours where using our config takes away these concerns
7) Do they offer auto provisioning? Does this handle setting calling tones to ones similar to what we had with our analog systems?  --- Yes thats why we have auto provisioning  Wink




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  Reply # 517883 7-Sep-2011 06:43 Send private message

DonGould:
sbiddle:  not Telecom.



Steve again, thanks for outlining how the processes work currently.  I'm sure I won't be the only one interested in how this stuff works.

With respect to Telecom, my view is that Telecom is a private company and has no social obligation at all.  They provide the 111 service today because they're paid to and they're still the sensible choice because of their size (but even that is changing).

With respect to 'who is 111'.  Yes, that's exactly why I suggested Telecom.

Telecom should simply be paid to collect the information.  Most towns have a telecom store and telecom staff understand telephone numbers and have the computing plat forms in place to deal with this sort of stuff.

I was going to suggest that you should just walk into any police station, but they don't have the level of computing systems, don't understand phone numbers and have the sort of set up to deal with such issues effectively in my view - what's more, there are more telecom stores than police stations in my area.

But if I was going to be really fair, then in my view everyone with a phone retail store should be able to update this information for people.  But what's more, it should be controlled via a central government web site and a simple system of validation in place such as the address validation at TradeMe.

Seriously, this is pathetic.  I can validate my address with trademe with more than enough validity for emergency services and it costs me nothing to do.

I put my address on line and they post me a letter with a code to confirm the location details.



Don always nice to read your comments but all I can say is that whilst you a big believer in the technology I'm not sure you believe in the big picture stuff, your comments that 111 with Telecom has no social responsibility highlights this and I'm sure most of NZ will disagree, also not being in the loop in the industry you really have no idea how hard, complicated and slow it is when you have to meet regulated conditions and make no mistake here this industry has regulations that responsible Telco's need to adhere too, nowadays we have working parties between all the main telcos where we work together to better the telco network for country and to comply with the regulations being laid out for us by regulatory bodies, you may not like it but frankly you are not involved with it because you don't work in the industry, just the same way I have no frigging idea what happens in the power or financial industries, I love to tell them how to do it over a beer or 2 and how I could fix it really easy but really it's just me banging my gums with no real background or expertise in those markets, just an uneducated opinion.

So always nice to see what your thinking and it's great to see your a fan of the technology but IMHO I really see you as a cowboy who doesn't care about New Zealand's network quality or integrity of deploying Next Generation Services and it's all about "wow this is really cool" and I'm actually glad you promote someone else service, seems to be a match made in Heaven 

Also we are way of topic ... perhaps it should be a new one :)




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  Reply # 517938 7-Sep-2011 09:31 Send private message

maverick:
techmeister: I would just like to point out that with 2talk if you want to use a non 2talk number as your caller ID you must first verify the number, it is not case of put any caller ID you want.


Doesn't matter this is wrong and is CLI ID spoofing, you own the number but the number is allocated to a SP network for a reason, spoofing the ID on another Network is wrong


Can I assume, there for, that you are against number protablity between providers?





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  Reply # 517944 7-Sep-2011 09:34 Send private message

No number porting is perfectly fine and is completely different Don , there is a full industry process for this and it works well, when you port you have a GSP and LSP these are recorded in a national database and everybody knows who is then legitimately servicing that number, this is not legibility doing that it's CLI spoofing pure and simple




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  Reply # 517973 7-Sep-2011 10:13 Send private message

maverick: No number porting is perfectly fine and is completely different Don , there is a full industry process for this and it works well, when you port you have a GSP and LSP these are recorded in a national database and everybody knows who is then legitimately servicing that number, this is not legibility doing that it's CLI spoofing pure and simple


Ok I still don't understand this, but I think I'm getting closer.

So what you're saying is:

If I move 348 7235 to 2Talk then that information is recorded in GSP and LSP (what ever they are).

However if I move 348 7235 to Telecom (just for the same of argument) but also have a 2Talk line, I can prove to 2Talk that I'm the rightful owner of 348 7235 (by showing them a phone bill from Telecom) and they will change the caller Id information to present 348 7235 on the services I have from them.

However they don't make any updates in GSP and LSP to reflect the changes? 

So, as a service provider yourself, you can no longer tell where the call is actually coming from?  You can only assume it's a Telecom number?






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  Reply # 517976 7-Sep-2011 10:17 Send private message

DonGould:
maverick:
techmeister: I would just like to point out that with 2talk if you want to use a non 2talk number as your caller ID you must first verify the number, it is not case of put any caller ID you want.


Doesn't matter this is wrong and is CLI ID spoofing, you own the number but the number is allocated to a SP network for a reason, spoofing the ID on another Network is wrong


Can I assume, there for, that you are against number protablity between providers?


How on earth did you draw that conclusion?

Are you outright trolling, or have you taken something?

If neither, I think you need to take a long hard look at your perception of what is said by knowledgeable people on this forum, before you put yourself in a position where people might choose to not engage with you. 




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  Reply # 517977 7-Sep-2011 10:17 Send private message

Interesting discussion. I travel alot and often take my home ata with me and plug into an available internet whereever I am or use my mobile data or use softphone on laptop with home number. I realise if I was making a 111 call I would have to be clear as to where I am. (of cause Im stuffed if I cant make voice sounds same as I would be with cell phone) Are you saying I should not be doing this. ie moving my ata around the country. It seems to me that in the future there will be little chance of ever knowing where a call is from exactly inless gps is attached or the internet connection I am using is traced somehow.

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  Reply # 517982 7-Sep-2011 10:21 Send private message

tonyhughes:
How on earth did you draw that conclusion?

Are you outright trolling, or have you taken something?
 


1.  I didn't understand what he was saying, which he's now further addressed without thinking it was just some sort of personal attack.

2. No I'm not trolling thanks.  I've got other things I should be doing today, but I'm very interested in this whole 111 and Cid space as both have been impacting me recently.

3. Yes I've taken a stack of stuff, thanks for asking.  I got a flew on Monday, so it's more than possible I'm not making much sense.






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  Reply # 517987 7-Sep-2011 10:24 Send private message

allstar1: Interesting discussion. I travel alot and often take my home ata with me and plug into an available internet whereever I am or use my mobile data or use softphone on laptop with home number. I realise if I was making a 111 call I would have to be clear as to where I am. (of cause Im stuffed if I cant make voice sounds same as I would be with cell phone) Are you saying I should not be doing this. ie moving my ata around the country. It seems to me that in the future there will be little chance of ever knowing where a call is from exactly inless gps is attached or the internet connection I am using is traced somehow.


I think that ATA movement should be an option that is declared.

If you advise 111 that the ATA will fixed and then you move it then you get a fine to send you a message that you need to do what you said you'll do and you ended up wasting peoples time and adding compromise to the system.

You should also have the option to tell 111 that your voip service is mobile.  In which case they automatically know that any address information they have is subject to change without notice.






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  Reply # 517989 7-Sep-2011 10:28 Send private message

techmeister: As I said in your other post not all sip clients can handle the -1 -2 -3 .


Interesting, thanks for that.  I didn't know that.

So far I've only used the call hunting thing because that's what made sense to me from years of working with normal POTS PSTN lines.

I'll be sure to watch out for that one.


BTW, if you set up phones in that configuration -1-2 etc, how do you do call transfers?  What do the extension numbers become?  So far I've only had a very basic play with assigning extension numbers.








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