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874 posts

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  Reply # 517993 7-Sep-2011 10:38 Send private message

allstar1: Interesting discussion. I travel alot and often take my home ata with me and plug into an available internet whereever I am or use my mobile data or use softphone on laptop with home number. I realise if I was making a 111 call I would have to be clear as to where I am. (of cause Im stuffed if I cant make voice sounds same as I would be with cell phone) Are you saying I should not be doing this. ie moving my ata around the country. It seems to me that in the future there will be little chance of ever knowing where a call is from exactly inless gps is attached or the internet connection I am using is traced somehow.



No. Can you see a better alternative to what you are doing. Not really. That is the nature of Voip -location unknown.

@DON - What Maverick is trying to say is that standards and processes make a useable network for you and me. And without standards, things would be a mess. This is case in point with CID spoofing. At present their is no right process for this to work morally/correctly.

Having first said to everyone here that CID spoofing was a cool feature, from what I have now read, I see that it is a mess to implement, and although is a cool end user feature, makes a mess behind the scenes. 

From a business point of view, which it sound like Don, your not coming from, even if a method is great, it ALWAYS has to conform to processes and standards. If not, your business will FAIL!

It is just how it must always work.

 

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  Reply # 518000 7-Sep-2011 10:48 Send private message

jjnz1: @DON - What Maverick is trying to say is that standards and processes make a useable network for you and me. And without standards, things would be a mess. This is case in point with CID spoofing. At present their is no right process for this to work morally/correctly.



Agreed.  It seems clear to me that there is a market demand for the feature/outcome but not enough work has been done to implement the feature in a way that leaves it not quite so subject to abuse - the current EventViewer scam being case and point.



jjnz1: Having first said to everyone here that CID spoofing was a cool feature, from what I have now read, I see that it is a mess to implement, and although is a cool end user feature, makes a mess behind the scenes.

From a business point of view, which it sound like Don, your not coming from, even if a method is great, it ALWAYS has to conform to processes and standards. If not, your business will FAIL!

It is just how it must always work.

 



History in the IT space doesn't agree with you.  

What needs to happen is a proper technical solution to the problems needs to be sorted out so the market can have the features it wants.  Nothing new about this.





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  Reply # 518002 7-Sep-2011 10:51 Send private message

Ok well it seems that VFX doesn't have some of the features I considered pretty critical in my move to 2talk like 1 number, does other of the other providers have this functionality?

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  Reply # 518009 7-Sep-2011 10:59 Send private message

DonGould: Ok I still don't understand this, but I think I'm getting closer.

So what you're saying is:

If I move 348 7235 to 2Talk then that information is recorded in GSP and LSP (what ever they are).


Hey Don, a bit more complicated than that. GSP and LSP are the Gaining and Loosing Service Providers. That only refers to number porting.

DonGould: However if I move 348 7235 to Telecom (just for the same of argument) but also have a 2Talk line, I can prove to 2Talk that I'm the rightful owner of 348 7235 (by showing them a phone bill from Telecom) and they will change the caller Id information to present 348 7235 on the services I have from them.

Within telco hand overs hand off codes are prepended to numbers so they route correctly, but a provider should not be sending any CID it does not "own" unless it is flagged with a divert header and shows the number it was diverted from. Kind of like email "Don@2Talk on behalf of Don@Telecom".

DonGould:However they don't make any updates in GSP and LSP to reflect the changes? 
So, as a service provider yourself, you can no longer tell where the call is actually coming from?  You can only assume it's a Telecom number?


Again the same as above, but if you close your account with Telecom then your address details will be removed from the database, as if it was not removed how would you update it?





Hmmmm

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  Reply # 518015 7-Sep-2011 11:03 Send private message

cisconz:
Within telco hand overs hand off codes are prepended to numbers so they route correctly, but a provider should not be sending any CID it does not "own" unless it is flagged with a divert header and shows the number it was diverted from. Kind of like email "Don@2Talk on behalf of Don@Telecom".


Sorry should have said that with the Divert header the Telecom number will come as CID on the end phone, but the providers will know the call actually came from the 2talk number.




Hmmmm

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WorldxChange

  Reply # 518019 7-Sep-2011 11:10 Send private message

Your learning David Wink




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

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  Reply # 518020 7-Sep-2011 11:11 Send private message

cisconz:
cisconz:
Within telco hand overs hand off codes are prepended to numbers so they route correctly, but a provider should not be sending any CID it does not "own" unless it is flagged with a divert header and shows the number it was diverted from. Kind of like email "Don@2Talk on behalf of Don@Telecom".


Sorry should have said that with the Divert header the Telecom number will come as CID on the end phone, but the providers will know the call actually came from the 2talk number.


Are we sure 2talk doesn't do this or does the current technology not allow for this? Because it sounds like a solution.

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  Reply # 518021 7-Sep-2011 11:14 Send private message

David is talking about "sip diversion" headers and this is for calls diverting, what it appears they are doing here is allowing the call to be originated from a VoIP device with a Number that doesn't belong to that VoIP provider




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  Reply # 518026 7-Sep-2011 11:20 Send private message

jjnz1: Are we sure 2talk doesn't do this or does the current technology not allow for this? Because it sounds like a solution.


They do do it, but only on diverted calls (Call Forward from within 2talk). I would rather they do it that way instead of straight out spoofing for "Verified callerid", but either way it is wrong to do it all together.

On a side note, they are not the only ITSP that lets you do it. One of our production trunks with another provider lets us send whatever callerid we want.





Hmmmm

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  Reply # 518029 7-Sep-2011 11:23 Send private message

DonGould: 

History in the IT space doesn't agree with you.  

What needs to happen is a proper technical solution to the problems needs to be sorted out so the market can have the features it wants.  Nothing new about this.



What I mean by fail, is not being No.1 in the industry. And what I am eluding to is efficiency which contributes to making a company No.1.

How many times have you or others moaned because someone hasn't done something right the first time so you have to spend time fixing it, when you could of been doing something more productive.  

Maverick: David is talking about "sip diversion" headers and this is for calls diverting, what it appears they are doing here is allowing the call to be originated from a VoIP device with a Number that doesn't belong to that VoIP provider


Ah, thanks. 

Networkn: Ok well it seems that VFX doesn't have some of the features I considered pretty critical in my move to 2talk like 1 number, does other of the other providers have this functionality?


It sounds like your 2talk experience has stemmed from your lack of knowledge within this area? (No disrespect) 2Talk make it pretty clear (I think) that they are for people who know a little bit about setting up their gear themselves.

It either sounds like your client is not letting you, or your settings are wrong. I have quite a bit of trouble using 2talk from my old nexus one, whereas my new nexus s is fine.

Do you know someone locally who can help you. If you were in Wellington, I could, but I think your from Aucks?



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  Reply # 518036 7-Sep-2011 11:35 Send private message

jjnz: well I believe if they would simply reply to my emails more than once every 4 days without stupid and pointless replies, or return any of the 6 calls I have left messages on their phone about, I could have this sorted pretty promptly, which is incidentally why this thread was started, not to discuss the points raised by others which have hijacked this thread. It's possible the gear doesn't work, but sipdroid on android was what THEY recommended, and so are the Linksys ATA's I purchased.

I take no offense to the suggestion some of my issues come from a lack of experience, we all need to start somewhere, but I had hoped some support might be forthcoming from 2talk which I am sure would allow me to get my issues sorted. At this point I am not even sure how to go about moving away from them, since no-one else seems to offer all the same services, and since I can't reach anyone, I can't ask for a refund or at least get the $50 account credit back.

I am 99% sure I have the settings right on my phone, and I have tried more than 1 sip client for android without any luck, (Uninstalled the others between times so they aren't all running).

Also it would seem we are occasionally drop a call or there can be a micropause between us speaking and someone else speaking. I don't see any evidence of a drop on the internet connection in my router logs either. Pretty sure with 70/10 Internet connection it's not a lack of bandwidth either.

I am happy to talk to someone in Auckland, just not sure who to contact.

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  Reply # 518040 7-Sep-2011 11:44 Send private message

jjnz1:  How many times have you or others moaned because someone hasn't done something right the first time so you have to spend time fixing it, when you could of been doing something more productive. 


What could be more productive in this space than asking questions, challenging responses and attempting to grow understanding?






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  Reply # 518042 7-Sep-2011 11:46 Send private message

DonGould:
jjnz1:  How many times have you or others moaned because someone hasn't done something right the first time so you have to spend time fixing it, when you could of been doing something more productive. 


What could be more productive in this space than asking questions, challenging responses and attempting to grow understanding?




Interesting that the time of these postings seems off.

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  Reply # 518045 7-Sep-2011 11:50 Send private message

networkn: jjnz: well I believe if they would simply reply to my emails more than once every 4 days without stupid and pointless replies, or return any of the 6 calls I have left messages on their phone about, I could have this sorted pretty promptly, which is incidentally why this thread was started, not to discuss the points raised by others which have hijacked this thread. It's possible the gear doesn't work, but sipdroid on android was what THEY recommended, and so are the Linksys ATA's I purchased.

I take no offense to the suggestion some of my issues come from a lack of experience, we all need to start somewhere, but I had hoped some support might be forthcoming from 2talk which I am sure would allow me to get my issues sorted. At this point I am not even sure how to go about moving away from them, since no-one else seems to offer all the same services, and since I can't reach anyone, I can't ask for a refund or at least get the $50 account credit back.

I am 99% sure I have the settings right on my phone, and I have tried more than 1 sip client for android without any luck, (Uninstalled the others between times so they aren't all running).

Also it would seem we are occasionally drop a call or there can be a micropause between us speaking and someone else speaking. I don't see any evidence of a drop on the internet connection in my router logs either. Pretty sure with 70/10 Internet connection it's not a lack of bandwidth either.

I am happy to talk to someone in Auckland, just not sure who to contact.


Some valid points here.

I have emailed 2Talk and asked for a national reseller list so we can find you someone local.  You might like to PM me some more details as I recall Auckland isn't a small place.

With respect to the call credit - good question, I'll follow that one up and report back.  I don't know either.

Micro pauses - what codec are you using.  I chose 711a in the end as the most reliable.  Not the most friendly on data, but given how big data caps are these days and the speed of my connection, care factor = 0

With respect to 2Talk service, or lack there of, I think that has been well addressed.






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  Reply # 518047 7-Sep-2011 11:56 Send private message

networkn: jjnz: well I believe if they would simply reply to my emails more than once every 4 days without stupid and pointless replies, or return any of the 6 calls I have left messages on their phone about, I could have this sorted pretty promptly, which is incidentally why this thread was started, not to discuss the points raised by others which have hijacked this thread. It's possible the gear doesn't work, but sipdroid on android was what THEY recommended, and so are the Linksys ATA's I purchased.


Whats quite funny (maybe not to you) is the other day, I needed some more information about upgrading to a 2Talk business plan so I decided to call their helpdesk on 09 281 4357.

I was on hold for roughly about 3 minutes, and then got a CSR. We spoke for about 2-3 minutes about porting more numbers across, the cost associated, the downtime, ease of upgrading etc.

Although he was a bit rough on the phone, I got all the info I needed and I was happy.

I am wary about leaving messages because in my mind they are last priority for any company. So, I normally just hang up and try again later, or wait.

An example, I am also in the process of moving 4 VF mobile numbers from consumer plans to a business smart plan/account, and also porting 3-4 other 2 degrees/XT numbers to that same business account. The CSR guy was suppose to call me back on Friday, then Monday, and then again yesterday. I had to chase him on Friday and finally got him on Monday arvo. But he hasn't called back again since Monday like he was suppose to.

I am not disappointed with Vodafone, as I know this is how many consumers get treated unfortunately.

I think the moral of the story is, (although we shouldn't have to...) is that waiting for a company to call you back is pointless, grab their balls in your hands and keep calling them. Only then will you get the results you are after.

Smile 

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