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Topic # 101989 13-May-2012 21:22 Send private message

Hi all,
  I have two separate InHome packages with TelstraClear (at two different addresses in the same suburb of Tauranga). During the evenings in the past couple of weeks both of these connections have become pretty frustrating to use. For example:

- an average ping of 250ms to www.telstraclear.net.nz
- an average ping of 450ms to www.google.co.nz
- average download speeds of 30KB/s from iTunes (downloading rental movie - 46hours to download a 1.48Gb movie!)
consumer.net.nz speed test of 1.17Mbps down, 0.55Mb/s up.
telstraclear.net.nz speed test of 3.50Mb/s down, 0.75Mpbs up. 274ms ping.

Those ping times are terrible! One of my connections is hardwired to the router and the other is on wifi - both show pretty much the same poor results.

My router connection details (for one of the addresses) are:
Downstream: 18616kbps
Upstream: 1171kbps
Attenuation: 9.0db down, 4.4db up
Noise margin: 12.1db down, 12.8db up.

Pinging between both connections (in the same suburb) shows an average 210ms ping.

I also have a business TelstraClear account which normally flies during the day. I can ssh into it from home and ping www.telstraclear.net.nz and the average is 270ms. That's pretty bad considering it's the website of my ISP. If I connect to a server on a client in Auckland and ping the same address, I get an average 2.43ms ping. over 100 times as fast.

I have send off a support contact to TelstraClear.

Is this a matter of congestion on the TC network? Is anyone else experiencing this? It's mightily frustrating and make both of my home connections in the evening pretty much unusable. 46 hours to download a 1.48Gb rented movie from iTunes!!!

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  Reply # 624535 13-May-2012 21:38 Send private message

Have you run winmtr to see where the congestion is?

There have been a number of threads on this issue already over the last few days.





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  Reply # 624537 13-May-2012 21:44 Send private message

~# mtr www.google.co.nz
Sun May 13 21:44:41 2012
Keys: Help Display mode Restart statistics Order of fields quit
Packets Pings
Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. router 0.0% 8 0.5 0.5 0.4 0.5 0.1
2. ???
3. 218.101.61.101 0.0% 8 9.1 8.7 7.8 10.0 0.8
4. ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net 0.0% 8 22.4 23.3 21.6 29.8 2.7
5. ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstracl 0.0% 8 58.1 28.2 22.0 58.1 12.4
6. te7-3.ccr01.sjc05.atlas.cogentco 0.0% 7 155.7 175.4 146.3 336.1 70.9
7. te4-2.ccr02.sjc03.atlas.cogentco 0.0% 7 226.7 255.3 178.9 368.8 70.8
8. 38.104.138.146 0.0% 7 174.6 176.5 173.8 186.5 4.4
9. 209.85.249.3 0.0% 7 186.7 180.2 175.0 195.3 7.8
10. 209.85.250.64 0.0% 7 176.7 176.9 175.6 179.2 1.3
11. ???
12. 72.14.239.247 0.0% 7 164.0 168.7 163.6 191.0 10.0
13. 209.85.250.124 0.0% 7 282.2 281.3 280.0 283.2 1.2
14. 66.249.95.167 0.0% 7 350.0 353.8 349.0 373.5 8.8
15. 72.14.237.47 0.0% 7 376.3 376.4 375.1 377.7 0.9
16. syd01s04-in-f31.1e100.net 0.0% 7 350.3 349.6 348.6 350.5 0.7


oh, look at that... Google's coming from the UK again!

Broken routing again? Who knows.




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18 posts

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  Reply # 624538 13-May-2012 21:56 Send private message

DonGould: Have you run winmtr to see where the congestion is?

There have been a number of threads on this issue already over the last few days.



I don't use Windows, but use Mac and Linux. I've installed mtr on Linux and it shows:Packets Pings
Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. www.routerlogin.com                   0.0% 93 0.6 0.5 0.5 1.2 0.1
2. 121.75.96.1                               9.7% 93 110.9 112.7 103.3 186.0 9.2
3. cs2-e3-5-acld.auckland.clix.net.nz 10.9% 92 112.7 142.2 109.4 196.0 21.2
4. front1-clix.clear.net.nz                 0.0% 92 74.3 108.4 71.1 158.2 21.0
5. idm-er-proxy.clear.net.nz             0.0% 92 78.4 107.2 73.4 166.8 20.1

The two big culprits are the first hop from my router to 121.75.96.1. This is my routers gateway address, which I assume is the server all of my packets first go through. It has a 112ms ping and 9.7% packet loss. That's a bit of a worry. Then the next hop up to Auckland is 142ms ping and 10.9% packet loss.




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  Reply # 624548 13-May-2012 22:06 Send private message

Mine...

Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. router 0.0% 56 0.4 0.4 0.2 0.6 0.1
2. ???
3. 218.101.61.101 0.0% 56 11.6 11.7 7.3 63.3 9.9
4. cs2-e3-5-acld.auckland.clix.net. 0.0% 56 21.7 23.2 18.9 59.6 5.2
5. front1-clix.clear.net.nz 0.0% 56 23.7 23.5 21.9 33.8 1.7
6. idm-er-proxy.clear.net.nz 0.0% 56 52.5 24.1 21.8 52.5 4.2

Yours...
1. www.routerlogin.com 0.0% 93 0.6 0.5 0.5 1.2 0.1
2. 121.75.96.1 9.7% 93 110.9 112.7 103.3 186.0 9.2

Ouch!

There's a whole layer 2 network in there that we can't see as I understand this stuff.

Clearly something's congested.

Might be really interesting to see this months TrueNet figures... John you lurking about? Want to give us a preview ;)





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  Reply # 624562 13-May-2012 22:18 Send private message

DonGould: ~# mtr www.google.co.nz
Sun May 13 21:44:41 2012
Keys: Help Display mode Restart statistics Order of fields quit
Packets Pings
Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. router 0.0% 8 0.5 0.5 0.4 0.5 0.1
2. ???
3. 218.101.61.101 0.0% 8 9.1 8.7 7.8 10.0 0.8
4. ie2-g-0-0-0.telstraclear.net 0.0% 8 22.4 23.3 21.6 29.8 2.7
5. ge-0-2-0-1.xcore1.acld.telstracl 0.0% 8 58.1 28.2 22.0 58.1 12.4
6. te7-3.ccr01.sjc05.atlas.cogentco 0.0% 7 155.7 175.4 146.3 336.1 70.9
7. te4-2.ccr02.sjc03.atlas.cogentco 0.0% 7 226.7 255.3 178.9 368.8 70.8
8. 38.104.138.146 0.0% 7 174.6 176.5 173.8 186.5 4.4
9. 209.85.249.3 0.0% 7 186.7 180.2 175.0 195.3 7.8
10. 209.85.250.64 0.0% 7 176.7 176.9 175.6 179.2 1.3
11. ???
12. 72.14.239.247 0.0% 7 164.0 168.7 163.6 191.0 10.0
13. 209.85.250.124 0.0% 7 282.2 281.3 280.0 283.2 1.2
14. 66.249.95.167 0.0% 7 350.0 353.8 349.0 373.5 8.8
15. 72.14.237.47 0.0% 7 376.3 376.4 375.1 377.7 0.9
16. syd01s04-in-f31.1e100.net 0.0% 7 350.3 349.6 348.6 350.5 0.7


oh, look at that... Google's coming from the UK again!

Broken routing again? Who knows.


that's not the UK.. that NZ -> US -> Australia.

NZ to US about 130 msec .. you to NZ about 25 msec..  US to Australia about 170 msec .. Australia to NZ latency about 25 msec.. 

Ok.. it may be going via Japan too...

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  Reply # 624564 13-May-2012 22:21 Send private message

allistar:
DonGould: Have you run winmtr to see where the congestion is?

There have been a number of threads on this issue already over the last few days.



I don't use Windows, but use Mac and Linux. I've installed mtr on Linux and it shows:Packets Pings
Host Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev
1. www.routerlogin.com                   0.0% 93 0.6 0.5 0.5 1.2 0.1
2. 121.75.96.1                               9.7% 93 110.9 112.7 103.3 186.0 9.2
3. cs2-e3-5-acld.auckland.clix.net.nz 10.9% 92 112.7 142.2 109.4 196.0 21.2
4. front1-clix.clear.net.nz                 0.0% 92 74.3 108.4 71.1 158.2 21.0
5. idm-er-proxy.clear.net.nz             0.0% 92 78.4 107.2 73.4 166.8 20.1

The two big culprits are the first hop from my router to 121.75.96.1. This is my routers gateway address, which I assume is the server all of my packets first go through. It has a 112ms ping and 9.7% packet loss. That's a bit of a worry. Then the next hop up to Auckland is 142ms ping and 10.9% packet loss.





i have low pings to that address.. it could be a hidden handover between you and there.. or the other side of the interface... from Auckland there's like a 6 msec ping..  with 0% loss.. or it's calmed down now..

anyway, it's enough that i'd complain.

curiously enough hops after are shoping less loss.. so that may be overloaded router deprioritising icmp.




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  Reply # 624565 13-May-2012 22:27 Send private message


Yours...
1. www.routerlogin.com 0.0% 93 0.6 0.5 0.5 1.2 0.1
2. 121.75.96.1 9.7% 93 110.9 112.7 103.3 186.0 9.2


I don't fully understand how this works. My connection goes through the wall to some kind of big green cabinet out on the road (mine is just around the corner). From there I imagine it's some kind of fibre connection to a server room somewhere? Is that where 121.75.96.1 is? Does the hardware in the DSLAM get an IP address like that? Both of my home connections (one for home, one for an apartment) have the same exact gateway address. Is the high latency to the gateway an indication that the gateway server is congested or that the physical connection between me and it is dodgy? Odd given I have a good connection to the DSLAM. Either way, downloading a movie on iTunes is currently slower than dialup, and my router reports an 18Mb/s downstream link.

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  Reply # 624566 13-May-2012 22:31 Send private message

allistar:

Yours...
1. www.routerlogin.com 0.0% 93 0.6 0.5 0.5 1.2 0.1
2. 121.75.96.1 9.7% 93 110.9 112.7 103.3 186.0 9.2


I don't fully understand how this works. My connection goes through the wall to some kind of big green cabinet out on the road (mine is just around the corner). From there I imagine it's some kind of fibre connection to a server room somewhere? Is that where 121.75.96.1 is? Does the hardware in the DSLAM get an IP address like that? Both of my home connections (one for home, one for an apartment) have the same exact gateway address. Is the high latency to the gateway an indication that the gateway server is congested or that the physical connection between me and it is dodgy? Odd given I have a good connection to the DSLAM. Either way, downloading a movie on iTunes is currently slower than dialup, and my router reports an 18Mb/s downstream link.


your connection goes to cabinet.  cabinet goes back to exchange.  exchange goes back to telstraclear.  telstraclear terminate "ppp" connection with your adsl modem.  telstraclear advertise their "gateway" address for your adsl connection to connect to.

you can't see the hops that the ppp connection traverses.  the ppp just terminates on telstraclear's gear, that may not even be in the same city as you.  but judging by the ping i got from auckland, it probably isn't in auckland...

so from there telstraclear will have backhaul from their gear that's terminating the ppp session, back to auckland.  but if you talk to another user in tauranga it should be able to go directly from there.

from my understanding the connection from tauranga  to auckland isn't congested.  leaving either the connection between telstraclear and telecom congesting, or the connection between the cabinet and the exchange, or a software glitch at the cabinet itself.

they have the same gateway address, as either they're using a standard gateway address (unlikely as then i'd probably get a different ping) or your whole region has one gateway address, and one box terminating (likely) or you're just lucky that you're terminating on the same box as your friend (that'd be more likely the case back in dialup days, and which box you ended up could vary, but now days the boxes are much bigger, and handle way more users).




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  Reply # 624568 13-May-2012 22:37 Send private message

mercutio: 
you can't see the hops that the ppp connection traverses.  the ppp just terminates on telstraclear's gear, that may not even be in the same city as you.  but judging by the ping i got from auckland, it probably isn't in auckland...


Cheers. Needless to say that a 120ms ping to my routers gateway pretty much means all traffic that leaves my router to anywhere will incur a 120ms penalty. No wonder downloads are so slow.

I wonder whether my gateway is in fact in Auckland. I'm in Tauranga.

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  Reply # 624571 13-May-2012 22:39 Send private message

allistar:
mercutio: 
you can't see the hops that the ppp connection traverses.  the ppp just terminates on telstraclear's gear, that may not even be in the same city as you.  but judging by the ping i got from auckland, it probably isn't in auckland...


Cheers. Needless to say that a 120ms ping to my routers gateway pretty much means all traffic that leaves my router to anywhere will incur a 120ms penalty. No wonder downloads are so slow.

I wonder whether my gateway is in fact in Auckland. I'm in Tauranga.


nah i think the gateway is in tauranga.. when you trace to your other friend when there's no congestion you should be able to tell from the latency.

120 msec ping should leave your connection quite usable.  it'll be the packet loss killing your connection usability.  what speed were you getting from speed test?  -- oh i should read what you wrote.. 3.5 megabit.. that should be fine.   well good enough to be usable.  not anything like dialup speeds.

being worse for itunes is probably to do with packet loss and international sites being effected more.  but it's likely that it'd be better during the daytime.




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  Reply # 624572 13-May-2012 22:43 Send private message

I think this is congestion related. It's just gone 10:40pm and the latency to the gateway has dropped from 120ms half an hour ago to 90ms now. The iTunes download is now at about 80KB/s from 20KB/s average an hour ago.

A sign that people have gone to bed and congestion is lower?

I'll see what TelstraClear say. If it is congestion related and they don't fix it, then that's pretty poor customer service and I'll be shifting my 3 TC accounts to an ISP that delivers the service they advertise. (This is supposed to be a "maximum speed" plan. I don't consider 46 hours to download 1.4Gb as "maximum speed".

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  Reply # 624574 13-May-2012 22:47 Send private message

Given the size of tauranga I would expect that TCL would have a hand over point from Chorus (not Telecom, they're only another retailer now).

My very basic understanding of how this stuff works, it could be that the hand over between Chorus and TCL that this customer is on is congested. That would explain why this user is getting congestion but we're not seeing dozens of others complaining.

It could also be that the ERX card that this users ppp session is terminated on is congested and who knows where that is. Given the current latency we can't tell at all.

But for all we know there could be any number of layer 2 switches/devices in link that you can't see in the layer 3 mtr.

If I was you (OP) I'd just keep an eye on it and keep posting mtr results each day until it improves. I suspect you'll find it will come right soon enough. I'd very much doubt that the TCL guys aren't keeping a keen eye on what's going on given the amount of marketing they've been doing recently.





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  Reply # 624575 13-May-2012 22:48 Send private message

allistar: I think this is congestion related. It's just gone 10:40pm and the latency to the gateway has dropped from 120ms half an hour ago to 90ms now. The iTunes download is now at about 80KB/s from 20KB/s average an hour ago.

A sign that people have gone to bed and congestion is lower?

I'll see what TelstraClear say. If it is congestion related and they don't fix it, then that's pretty poor customer service and I'll be shifting my 3 TC accounts to an ISP that delivers the service they advertise. (This is supposed to be a "maximum speed" plan. I don't consider 46 hours to download 1.4Gb as "maximum speed".


i'd expect it reasonable to take 30 minutes for 1.4gb myself.  2 hours slow but ok, and 46 .. yeh...

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  Reply # 624576 13-May-2012 22:51 Send private message

allistar:  A sign that people have gone to bed and congestion is lower?


Yip


I'll see what TelstraClear say. If it is congestion related and they don't fix it, then that's pretty poor customer service


What would you consider an acceptable time frame for them to sort it out?





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  Reply # 624577 13-May-2012 22:53 Send private message

mercutio:nah i think the gateway is in tauranga..


Where's DV tonight?  He'll know if there's a BRAS in Tauranga.  I would think there would be given the size of the place.  I'd guess it would be servicing the whole region.






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