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66 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 108475 29-Aug-2012 22:21 Send private message

Hi,
I am interested in the views of other users on this subject.

We live rurally, within spitting distance of our exchange. BUBA adsl service is available (no roadside cabinets off this exchange) and we have had an adsl connection since TCL brought out their PDQ product. Performance was good - sync speed is about 7000kbps down, and we used to  enjoy sustained d/l speeds in the range 3 - 5 Mbps.

Then in March this year d/l data rates crashed through the floor, dropping as low as 100kbps at times, and not more than 250kbps any time of day. Latency remained ok (65 - 85ms), as did u/l data rate (usually close to 700kbps) 

I contacted TCL customer help by email, and have had the most frustrating experience imaginable over the last 5 months! They seemed unable to take my complaint seriously, reminding me repeatedly that we had good sync speed, asking over and over for speed test reports from different times of day, had I tried different modems etc etc. Then they started talking about an upgrade to the Rangitikei backhaul, and I should see improvements in the weeks ahead as traffic was migrated from congested circuits (a tactic designed to get me to shut up for a while). True, there has been some slight improvement at quiet times - sometimes speedtest.net will report rates as high as 1000kbps!!! Most of the time it comes in between 250 and 600 kbps. Most frustratingly, my questions as to what had caused the downgrade of our once good service were never addressed.

Finally I wrote a letter to TCL customer help complaints department (ironically, only a snail mail address is published on the website) setting out my complaint about the performance of the help team. Finally I got a response (by email) the gist of which was that new subcribers have been added on our exchange which was unfortunately causing the data congestion. Nothing could be done, Chorus have  no plans to increase the size of the data pipe, and we would just have to live with it.

So, first question - why did it take 5 months to obtain this admission? Second question - do TCL not have some minimum service level agreement with Chorus as regards performance of the adsl connection? I can understand that Chorus don't care, after all each additional suscriber means more income for them. But I would have thought that TCL would care, they take the money and it is in their interest to have happy customers.

What is considered acceptable for adsl? For example, where I was once able to watch streaming video (u-tube, tvone on-demand etc), now it is impossible. The loading time far exceeds the actual viewing time, even for the video from Clear Net site. Example 2: a 10MB ftp file download takes over 4 minutes, when it was about 20 seconds.

Any thoughts out there?

Cheers,

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16485 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 679031 29-Aug-2012 23:07 Send private message

Consumer ADSL is best effort, Approx where are you?




68 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 679064 30-Aug-2012 06:04 Send private message

this sounds very familiar



66 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 679066 30-Aug-2012 06:17 Send private message

Hi johnr,

It is the Turakina exchange.

Sorry, the plans are sold as max speed, not best effort. Even on best effort basis, I would have expected that minimum service levels would apply.

Colin

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  Reply # 679067 30-Aug-2012 06:21 Send private message

colinuu: Hi johnr,

It is the Turakina exchange.

Sorry, the plans are sold as max speed, not best effort. Even on best effort basis, I would have expected that minimum service levels would apply.

Colin


No minimum service levels apply and all ADSL and VDSL plans are best effort services. If you're also on BUBA you're subjected to the imposed 45kbps handover dimensioning also.


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  Reply # 679074 30-Aug-2012 07:18 Send private message

colinuu: Hi johnr,

It is the Turakina exchange.

Sorry, the plans are sold as max speed, not best effort. Even on best effort basis, I would have expected that minimum service levels would apply.

Colin


Max speed possible when you take a few things into count

Quality of house wiring, Distance from exchange, Actual capacity of the ADSL kit including back haul / transmission

John




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  Reply # 679075 30-Aug-2012 07:25 Send private message

Have the modem sync speeds changed?

Did you have heavy rains or construction around May?

Have you done a test unplugging all the devices (phones, alarms, fax machines) and plugging the modem directly to the first plug in the hose? If so has the test shown any change in sync speeds?

Although more users can cause this, it's always wise to check your home wiring just in case something happened to make the problem worse.




68 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 15


  Reply # 679087 30-Aug-2012 08:12 Send private message

yep, this sounds very familiar indeed. the service guys bring up all the usual stuff about distance from exchange and were you live blah blah, and completely disregard the fact that it used to have a good speed. I had a similar problem a while back but eventually just gave up because they were obviously unwilling to look into the problem

edit: also I did everything they told me to make sure its nothing on my end. tried different modems, bought new filters, had people come up to check the wiring, unplugged all the phones, tried with and without filters, tried different modems..... hell I even tried turning it off and back on again!

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  Reply # 679091 30-Aug-2012 08:26 Send private message

bakewells5856: yep, this sounds very familiar indeed. the service guys bring up all the usual stuff about distance from exchange and were you live blah blah, and completely disregard the fact that it used to have a good speed. I had a similar problem a while back but eventually just gave up because they were obviously unwilling to look into the problem


Has the OP looked into any issues that could be under their control like getting the house wiring checked out and a master splitter installed. Many customers are all too quick to blame the ISP for issues when the actual issue is not related to the ISP,

They could have even looked around Geekzone at the many threads on the same subject same issue

John




5268 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 679094 30-Aug-2012 08:33 Send private message

"We live rurally, within spitting distance of our exchange. "


could you be more specific? I can spit about 6 feet, so this implies you literally live next door to the exchange.

since I doubt that is the case, then what does 'spitting distance' mean to you? 100m? 1km? 5km?

219 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 679099 30-Aug-2012 08:46 Send private message

Had a look at the Chorus availability tool, and though it doesn't say, I'm willing to bet you're on a Conklin exchange.

The Conklins are crap, there's no better way to put it. They have a maximum 4mbit backhaul link, and if you get a few extra subscribers on it, they will all be sharing this throughput.

If this is the case, then no ISP can help you, you'd have to disconnect a few other people to get your old speeds back, which isn't fair to them. And as far as I can see there are no plans to upgrade that exchange or cabinetize it.

Best advice I can give you, is look into wireless providers if available, or 3g internet.

68 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 15


  Reply # 679108 30-Aug-2012 08:56 Send private message


The Conklins are crap, there's no better way to put it. They have a maximum 4mbit backhaul link, and if you get a few extra subscribers on it, they will all be sharing this throughput.

If this is the case, then no ISP can help you, you'd have to disconnect a few other people to get your old speeds back, which isn't fair to them. And as far as I can see there are no plans to upgrade that exchange or cabinetize it.


thats the thing I really dont get. if the exchange cant handle more people, they why do they put more people on in the first place? clearly they just want to cram as many customers in as they can to cut costs, without caring about what sort of service they get. they could at least give us a discount if they're going to do that. if we are effectively sharing one connection, it seems unfair for us all to be paying full price



66 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 679114 30-Aug-2012 09:05 Send private message

Thanks for all the responses. Clearly I have touched a nerve...

Yes, the house wiring has been checked multiple times, I have changed modems, I have a central filter fitted.... sync speed is unchanged at about 7000 kbps.

Spitting distance in this case means about 200m.

Grudge, I think you are probably correct, which would explain everything.

We are in a bit of a radio black hole, so no wireless option. 3G using Telecom would work, but data is very expensive. Satellite would work, again data is expensive and high latency..

Any other ideas would be highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Colin

68 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 15


Reply # 679115 30-Aug-2012 09:09 Send private message

wish i could spit that far :P

219 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 21


  Reply # 679130 30-Aug-2012 09:35 Send private message

bakewells5856: 
thats the thing I really dont get. if the exchange cant handle more people, they why do they put more people on in the first place? clearly they just want to cram as many customers in as they can to cut costs, without caring about what sort of service they get. they could at least give us a discount if they're going to do that. if we are effectively sharing one connection, it seems unfair for us all to be paying full price


Well I for one have never seen Chorus ever come back with a response of 

"There are 10 available ports on the DSLAM but connecting this customer would impact other customer's throughput"

This is because the CIR for BUBA is 45kbps as someone mentioned previously, basically the service they are providing is within the agreed SLA's.

The ISP won't be able to give you a discount, because, again, the service is within the specifications agreed.

Basically the consumer gets a bit screwed in these situations, and the ISP has no leverage against the wholesaler, because of these agreements.

The way I see it, if you live in a rural area you have good views, nature all around you, things us city people don't really get to enjoy on a daily basis, but at least we get to enjoy better internets ;P

68 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 15


  Reply # 679139 30-Aug-2012 09:53 Send private message

dont need good views when you have good internet, thats what google images is for

it just seems like if you and some other person went to mcdonalds and you both ordered a cheeseburger, and you both pay for it and they're happy enough to take your money, but then they come back and say "oh sorry we only have the one cheeseburger so your both going to have to share. don't worry I already cut it in half for you"

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