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566 posts

Ultimate Geek
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TelstraClear

  Reply # 720879 21-Nov-2012 16:58 Send private message

hi all. As posted on another thread where this is being discussed:


Hi everyone. I'll keep you updated on this. Google have acknowledged our ticket and advised that they're looking into this. We are passing on to Google any posts that will assist their troubleshooting (such as this one by MaxLV).

Please note - the problem is definitely outside our network but we will work with Google and any other providers as required to improve the YouTube experience for our customers.

If you are experiencing this intermittent issue with YouTube videos, and want to provide a good description that may assist Google to troubleshoot, please post or PM it and we'll pass it on.

If you are experienceing problems with all YouTube videos (as I think someone mentioned) please PM me as well and we'll look into that for you as that could indicate a problem with your connection.

Cheers, Gary

33 posts

Geek


  Reply # 720889 21-Nov-2012 17:16 Send private message

FelixW: YouTube Video Speed History
Your average video speed at this location from 21 Oct 2012 to 19 Nov 2012 was 25.97 Mbps.

Video Speed Comparison (21 Oct 2012 to 19 Nov 2012)





your one looks great 

here's mine

Your average video speed at this location from 21 Oct 2012 to 19 Nov 2012 was 1.85 Mbps.

BDFL
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  Reply # 720891 21-Nov-2012 17:18 Send private message

pbee50 are you using DNS 203.97.78.43 and 203.97.78.44 ?




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  Reply # 720895 21-Nov-2012 17:31 Send private message

freitasm: pbee50 are you using DNS 203.97.78.43 and 203.97.78.44 ?


Won't make a blind bit of difference what IP's are in the dns if TCL is just redirecting port 53 which is what my tests this afternoon suggested to me.






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  Reply # 720979 21-Nov-2012 21:22 Send private message

TelstraClear:  Please note - the problem is definitely outside our network but we will work with Google and any other providers as required to improve the YouTube experience for our customers.
 


Good. 

However I'd now like to know why it's on a Telstra IP range?

I'd also like to understand why it seems to be configured differently with Telstra than other providers configure things? 

Is this the cause of on going issues?  Is this a case of Telstra being out side of the box and as such making life much harder for Google to support properly as it's simply a different configuration.

I'd also like to understand why L1HD told me to test with 8.8.8.8 (Google DNS servers) when it seems clear that you're intercepting all DNS traffic and throwing it at your own DNS array?

I'd also like to understand why you're intercepting the DNS data in this way and not permitting users to use other dns servers without tunneling past it using a VPN?

D




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  Reply # 721000 21-Nov-2012 22:07 Send private message



Here's an offending clip.

Wife tells me it stopped loading and started buffering on her desktop.

When I tested it on my netbook via wifi there was no issue, buffered up 30% quickly and kept tracking.

Suggests to me that the feed into the TCL cache is slow but once cached the performance is not to bad.

However, I'm running Squid proxy, so I assume the clip may have been proxyed by my wife before I got it on my netbook.

We're both using Firefox.

Proxy MTU is prob 1500 but MTU on the router machines are hitting is 1460 (if that makes any difference).

D




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260 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 721053 22-Nov-2012 00:39 Send private message

TelstraClear: hi all. As posted on another thread where this is being discussed:


Hi everyone. I'll keep you updated on this. Google have acknowledged our ticket and advised that they're looking into this. We are passing on to Google any posts that will assist their troubleshooting (such as this one by MaxLV).

Please note - the problem is definitely outside our network but we will work with Google and any other providers as required to improve the YouTube experience for our customers.

If you are experiencing this intermittent issue with YouTube videos, and want to provide a good description that may assist Google to troubleshoot, please post or PM it and we'll pass it on.

If you are experienceing problems with all YouTube videos (as I think someone mentioned) please PM me as well and we'll look into that for you as that could indicate a problem with your connection.

Cheers, Gary


Update: I have been trying You Tube for the last 45 mins or so, so far not one of the videos has stalled, or been slow to load. The download progress is a lot faster than the play bar.

As to logging faults when things do go wrong (very rarely), my previous experience with the Telstra Clear contact centre make me try to avoid that experience like the plague. It's an absolute last resort thing for me... But I it's the only thing I can fault Telstra Clear for.

The rest of the services I get, TV/T Box, land line  Mobile, and Internet I cant fault. It's the best available in NZ IMHO.

I have been reporting this You Tube problem to You Tube through their Report a Playback Issue with some of the videos for the last 2 - 3 weeks.

 

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  Reply # 721193 22-Nov-2012 10:29 Send private message

Max great to hear things are picking up for you.

I got a ping back from Pete about the ns set up for their cache and it seems that it's not so different to TelstraClears at a glance.

I do support Gary's comments that debugging this stuff is complex when the target is constantly moving.

I do understand that these resources are very complex so with out good network visibility it's almost impossible for us to offer much of use to debug the process.

I don't support the view that interacting with Google is a task that should be passed to us down stream end users.

The Telecom set up is also running on an IP range that's specific to them.

At first glance, it does appear that these complex systems are tailored to individual ISPs and the configurations are unique to each which really does mean that the ISP needs to take full ownership and represent end users.

It does raise in my mind the question of different providers getting different levels of service from Google though.

To me, Google/YouTube are very significant systems these days and as Peter and others highlight, can me the make/break for a customer choosing your service.

I'm sure there are many of you who would just laugh at the prospect of my getting a job at TelstraClear after my comments on list about their performance.

I wonder if the relationship between Google and Telstra has been compromised and as such Telstra is paying a penalty for this?





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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 721197 22-Nov-2012 10:35 Send private message

Guys I think this data is almost meaningless without some real qualification.

How are these metrics measured? 

Are they ingress to the cache farm for user requests, are they egress from the cache farm and then averaged on clips that existing in the cache?

Are they calculated by the client on your machine?

FelixW's test shows video hitting him at up to 37mbit/s, but for how long is that really happening?  What quality is feeding at that line rate?  1080?  Why is the performance so erratic?

What are these graphs really telling us about performance at all?  At one point it drops right off.  Is that a stall or where the user just stops requesting traffic?

D



pbee50:
FelixW: YouTube Video Speed History
Your average video speed at this location from 21 Oct 2012 to 19 Nov 2012 was 25.97 Mbps.

Video Speed Comparison (21 Oct 2012 to 19 Nov 2012)





your one looks great 

here's mine

Your average video speed at this location from 21 Oct 2012 to 19 Nov 2012 was 1.85 Mbps.




Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]


33 posts

Geek


  Reply # 721227 22-Nov-2012 11:39 Send private message

 freitasm: pbee50 are you using DNS 203.97.78.43 and 203.97.78.44 ?


no im not - i will try and see if it makes a difference



Won't make a blind bit of difference what IP's are in the dns if TCL is just redirecting port 53 which is what my tests this afternoon suggested to me.


hmmm maybe not then 


Out of interest i borrowed my sons Astrill VPN account and connected via their fastest Australian server and it plays you tube videos without any stalling and at a 480p default- not blinding fast but very usable

I think for the cost, a VPN may be worth investing on to bypass ISP DNS/cache/throttling issues plus other benefits 



BDFL
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  Reply # 721229 22-Nov-2012 11:40 Send private message

Please use the suggested DNS, regardless of what DonG says.




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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 721245 22-Nov-2012 12:06 Send private message

The DNS is thrown in as a cure all. I think it deflects attention from the issue. I am using the much praised DNS's yet my You Tube performance on TelstraClears cable is terrible, yet on Xtra and 3G its fine.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

BDFL
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  Reply # 721303 22-Nov-2012 13:34 Send private message

I am not saying the DNS will cure it all. I am saying that it's one less thing to confuse the issue.

Using the ISP DNS helps in many ways:

1.Using a local DNS will point to a local cache, sometimes even an internal one (such as the TelstraClear's own Google-managed cache). If you use OpenDNS for example you might end up getting an IP in New York for a server that could very well have a POP here n New Zealand.

2.It will point correctly to the ISP that there's a problem in their network. If you have a DNS pointing you to a POP in New York, how can you guarantee the problem is not somewhere else in between?




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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 721469 22-Nov-2012 17:40 Send private message

freitasm: ... If you use OpenDNS for example ...


If you're using OpenDNS and thinking it's providing content filtering for you, and I'm correct that TCL are redirecting port 53 traffic to their own DNS array, then while CDN access won't break, you won't be getting any content filtering either, hence why I pointed the issue out.

I also do not understand why providers use DNS modification and not BGP and multi homed IP systems so that the integrity of the DNS system is maintained.

Makes me wonder how I can be sure that I'm actually hitting my banks web site and anyone with https when ISPs are putting in systems to allow then to just change the configuration of networks from that of the host.






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129 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 721941 23-Nov-2012 16:42 Send private message

Don, you may as well take your tinfoil hat now. 
Using the correct DNS servers on a providers network gives you the correct information for services found in that providers network.  it is the sensible thing to do.

Life is too short and it's too much work to want to have to inspect each packet into the IP header field to determine if it's a DNS request and then packet rewrite to usurp whatever entry is in there to one of our choosing.

There is too much Tom Clancy reading going on after hours.

There is no conspiracy.




"Customers don’t expect you to be perfect. They do expect you to fix things when they go wrong." Donald Porter – British Airways

The views expressed here are my own and are not reflective of other organisms or organisations.

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