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1082 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 584260 20-Feb-2012 23:13 Send private message

jpollock:
mercutio: 

have you tried a download accelerator?  axel is an example for linux.  not sure what is out for windows.



A wget replacement won't fix the problem for other TCP connections such as video streaming. :)

mercutio: 

i think you'll find that it's consistent low grade packet loss causing issues.



Yes, the impressive thing is that it doesn't affect UDP traffic, and limits sockets to the rate they would achieve at that ping without the large window extension.  That indicates that it is intentional behaviour of the network.  We've diagnosed it as a problem with Reach, Telstra Clear's upstream provider. :)

mercutio: 

the easiest solution is to bounce your traffic through a server in los angeles to your remote destination.  with tcp.  you can setup something like redir with a firewall only allowing connections to your ip... 

not sure if there is an easy way to do it transparently with vpn.  but i think you'll find vpn on it's own doesn't help.

 


Well, since LA is the wrong side of Reach, we still won't see any performance benefits, which is why you want a socket to a VPN provider here in NZ that uses a different international traffic provider, or else a VPN that uses UDP or load balanced TCP. :)  You could even implement some of Google's proposed TCP changes (quick start/etc) to reduce the number of round trips to the remote VPN endpoint. :)

I'd like my 10mbps per socket please! 

Jason 


interesting that it doesn't happen on udp.  i assumed tcp was reacting worse to the small amount of packet drops seen in udp.

you've done iperf testing with udp i take it?

what are you using to measure tcp/ip losses?  i'd be keen to try doing some testing of my own.

the thing about LA, is partially that it's closer.

wtf... i just tried to one of my LA hosts.. and it's going even worse than normal..

ok... my other LA host appears to be working fine through telstraclear... http://arp.meh.net.nz:24/10m

10mb test download.. peered with reach at equnix.

then another test that's slow

http://lv.meh.net.nz:24/10m 

peered with reach at any2ix.

the alternative port will bypass any port 80 transparent proxies 

1912 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 456

Trusted
Spark NZ

  Reply # 584261 20-Feb-2012 23:13 Send private message

jnawk:
Talkiet: Mind you, you've taken some very interesting interpretations elsewhere in this thread so it's entirely possible you believe that a company using (for example) default settings out of the box means they deliberately and precisely understand and fully endorse the resulting behaviour, even if in fact the service is entirely fit for purpose and the cost of modifying it would far exceed any benefit it would bring them.

Cheers - N



Mate, lets not start a pissing match, but if you believe for one moment that telstra don't have capable people who understand their stuff, then you do them a disservice.


I never said that, I implied that even if there's a configuration somewhere which could be changed to improve things for you, that it probably doesn't merit the cost and time to do so, especially if it only affects a very very small number of people. And by affect, I mean actually is detrimental to their Internet use experience - not just that they may be having the same behaviour occur.

I know a number of past and current capable Telstra engineers and I would never accuse them of being unable to understand their stuff.

Like any Telco though, I would say it could prove very hard to get such a tiny change accepted, developed, tested, through change control and rolled out - especially when the revenue side of the change is likely to be Zero.

Cheers - N


1082 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 584264 20-Feb-2012 23:23 Send private message

http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/releases/releases/11.10/ubuntu-11.10-server-amd64.iso

is a good example of something that's slow through telstraclear, fast through others, and on the close side of the US...

 



178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 584267 20-Feb-2012 23:32 Send private message

Talkiet:Like any Telco though, I would say it could prove very hard to get such a tiny change accepted, developed, tested, through change control and rolled out -


Oh no problem there - Telstra don't even believe in testing their changes, much less CAB them! :-)

1082 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 584278 21-Feb-2012 00:11 Send private message

it'd be nice to have an update from telstraclear.
 

601 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

  Reply # 584304 21-Feb-2012 07:37 Send private message

mercutio: http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/releases/releases/11.10/ubuntu-11.10-server-amd64.iso

is a good example of something that's slow through telstraclear, fast through others, and on the close side of the US...

 


Careful, HTTP goes through the transparent proxy, which means that it can't be used to diagnose IP layer faults.

To really track it down, you'll need an encrypted connection and control of both ends to make sure that the large window size TCP extensions are being passed all the way through the network in both directions.

The testing here was done by comparing results between two NZ ISPs to a host in the US.  One ISP supported the large window option, another behaved like it didn't, but appeared to pass the data.






178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 584312 21-Feb-2012 08:13 Send private message

jpollock:
mercutio: http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/releases/releases/11.10/ubuntu-11.10-server-amd64.iso

is a good example of something that's slow through telstraclear, fast through others, and on the close side of the US...

?


Careful, HTTP goes through the transparent proxy, which means that it can't be used to diagnose IP layer faults.

To really track it down, you'll need an encrypted connection and control of both ends to make sure that the large window size TCP extensions are being passed all the way through the network in both directions.

The testing here was done by comparing results between two NZ ISPs to a host in the US. ?One ISP supported the large window option, another behaved like it didn't, but appeared to pass the data.


The same tests were also done to another host in Germany. Again, I had control of both ends. Same type of results - since the latency was even higher, the single socket speeds were even slower.

1082 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 584374 21-Feb-2012 10:21 Send private message

jpollock:
mercutio: http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/releases/releases/11.10/ubuntu-11.10-server-amd64.iso

is a good example of something that's slow through telstraclear, fast through others, and on the close side of the US...

 


Careful, HTTP goes through the transparent proxy, which means that it can't be used to diagnose IP layer faults.

To really track it down, you'll need an encrypted connection and control of both ends to make sure that the large window size TCP extensions are being passed all the way through the network in both directions.

The testing here was done by comparing results between two NZ ISPs to a host in the US.  One ISP supported the large window option, another behaved like it didn't, but appeared to pass the data.


tcpdump can show the window sizes pretty easily, if you can dump on both sides.  i think you'll find it's early packet loss stopping cubic from ramping up speed that really hurts.  then regular low amounts of packet loss stopping the speed going up too much.

 



178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 11


  Reply # 584398 21-Feb-2012 10:55 Send private message

mercutio:

tcpdump can show the window sizes pretty easily, if you can dump on both sides. ?i think you'll find it's early packet loss stopping cubic from ramping up speed that really hurts. ?then regular low amounts of packet loss stopping the speed going up too much.

?


True, though the point is that with the transproxy in there, you can't be sure its not messing things up in its own special ways.

601 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 5

Trusted

  Reply # 584405 21-Feb-2012 11:06 Send private message

jnawk:
mercutio:

tcpdump can show the window sizes pretty easily, if you can dump on both sides. ?i think you'll find it's early packet loss stopping cubic from ramping up speed that really hurts. ?then regular low amounts of packet loss stopping the speed going up too much.

?


True, though the point is that with the transproxy in there, you can't be sure its not messing things up in its own special ways.


Which it does by redoing the DNS lookup. ;) 




1082 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 584415 21-Feb-2012 11:29 Send private message

jnawk:
mercutio:

tcpdump can show the window sizes pretty easily, if you can dump on both sides. ?i think you'll find it's early packet loss stopping cubic from ramping up speed that really hurts. ?then regular low amounts of packet loss stopping the speed going up too much.

?


True, though the point is that with the transproxy in there, you can't be sure its not messing things up in its own special ways.


well you can test that with alternative port.
 

1082 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 584416 21-Feb-2012 11:30 Send private message

jpollock:
jnawk:
mercutio:

tcpdump can show the window sizes pretty easily, if you can dump on both sides. ?i think you'll find it's early packet loss stopping cubic from ramping up speed that really hurts. ?then regular low amounts of packet loss stopping the speed going up too much.

?


True, though the point is that with the transproxy in there, you can't be sure its not messing things up in its own special ways.


Which it does by redoing the DNS lookup. ;) 


i used to assume the reason telstraclear was show for web was it's transparent proxy.

these days i'm not convinced.

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