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  Reply # 740165 4-Jan-2013 14:25 Send private message

networkn: Ok heres a good example of what is garbage about Windows 8.

Customer turns up today with a Windows 8 computer. He can't make skype work. Says there is an update but won't install it, so I go to skypes website to download the new installer, says show in windows store is the only option. Click that and it asks me to login to my Microsoft account. Is it now a mandatory requirement to have a MS Account to use Skype on Windows 8 ?

ugh, so I decided I'd sign him up for a MS Account (Which he doesn't want nor otherwise need) and when I go to the signup page, it throws an error and says it's down for a while!


If you are providing IT support then you really need to stay up to date with different OS's and how they work. Windows 8 is here to stay. Metro UI is the new start screen and will replace the desktop slowly over the coming years. 

There is desktop apps and then there is Windows store apps. Windows store apps need a new or existing Microsoft/Xbox/Hotmail/Windows Live ID account to download apps from Windows store or do the updates, otherwise how else would they know whose account to charge the credit card to, or whose account to keep a history of installed/downloaded apps on? This is NO DIFFERENT from the way iOS or Android ecosystem works. You need a Google or Apple ID as well to download apps from the store and update them, don't you?

If I were you, I would have shown him the benefits of creating/logging in with a MS account into his Windows 8 machine so his personal settings roam with him into whichever Windows 8 machine around the world he logs into. 




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  Reply # 740169 4-Jan-2013 14:50 Send private message

Microsoft's Sky Drive is another example  where there is a "Metro" version available in the Store (think it comes preinstalled with Win 8 too? but which I deleted) and a desk top one available from normal web download.

Probably others too.

Not sure about whether Internet Explorer is one application or two, as one has the choice in its desktop version's options to open it as a desktop application or as a "Metro" one - maybe this type of option choice will evolve for the likes of Sky Drive and Skype in future?

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  Reply # 740172 4-Jan-2013 15:03 Send private message

Klipspringer:
networkn: Is it now a mandatory requirement to have a MS Account to use Skype on Windows 8 ?

No. What makes it confusing though is that there are two skype instances. On my PC anyway.

You can install the desktop version of skype (download/install as per usual from skype.com), no need for a a MS account. To install the Metro version you will need a MS account.


Yes I found a forum post online that said you needed to click beyond the "skype for windows 8" to get to the "desktop" version. Ugh! Anyway it's all installed now, but what a debacle. 

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  Reply # 740174 4-Jan-2013 15:09 Send private message

billgates:
networkn: Ok heres a good example of what is garbage about Windows 8.

Customer turns up today with a Windows 8 computer. He can't make skype work. Says there is an update but won't install it, so I go to skypes website to download the new installer, says show in windows store is the only option. Click that and it asks me to login to my Microsoft account. Is it now a mandatory requirement to have a MS Account to use Skype on Windows 8 ?

ugh, so I decided I'd sign him up for a MS Account (Which he doesn't want nor otherwise need) and when I go to the signup page, it throws an error and says it's down for a while!


If you are providing IT support then you really need to stay up to date with different OS's and how they work. Windows 8 is here to stay. Metro UI is the new start screen and will replace the desktop slowly over the coming years. 

There is desktop apps and then there is Windows store apps. Windows store apps need a new or existing Microsoft/Xbox/Hotmail/Windows Live ID account to download apps from Windows store or do the updates, otherwise how else would they know whose account to charge the credit card to, or whose account to keep a history of installed/downloaded apps on? This is NO DIFFERENT from the way iOS or Android ecosystem works. You need a Google or Apple ID as well to download apps from the store and update them, don't you?

If I were you, I would have shown him the benefits of creating/logging in with a MS account into his Windows 8 machine so his personal settings roam with him into whichever Windows 8 machine around the world he logs into. 


Wow 18 years of providing IT support and now is the first time (Thanks to you telling me!) I realized I needed to stay up to date!

The problem I have is that these things are NOT clear, it might surprise you to know this isn't my first OS, nor my first major change, but every time I go to try and work the way I think it should, it's stupidly over complicated. (Tried to shutdown your computer today?) The page I got to with Skype (Which was broken) to download the new one, told me I had to get it from the App store, no mention of any other separate version. It took some digging to find the older one. The way to help people transition is to say "Here is the Windows 8 Metro App Version), and then a nice link underneath offering the desktop version as well.

There are a lot of intelligent experienced people who are struggling with Windows 8 because of Metro. Logic says that they made this transition too dramatic, and or that it's not what people want from an OS.

Instead of insisting we are all stupid perhaps you could consider that instead. 

I can't even work out how to put apps on the desktop!


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  Reply # 740181 4-Jan-2013 16:01 Send private message

networkn:
There are a lot of intelligent experienced people who are struggling with Windows 8 because of Metro. Logic says that they made this transition too dramatic, and or that it's not what people want from an OS. 

Instead of insisting we are all stupid perhaps you could consider that instead. 

I can't even work out how to put apps on the desktop!



Some people are treating win8 like a religious experience.  Anyone not buying in must be considered an infidel or stupid for not spending the time to learn the hidden secrets of the wise ones. 

Why didn't MS simply keep the old start menu for desktop users, and let tablet users have metro?Problem solved. 

I object to having the 'metro' start taking my entire screen. I like the old start menu where you can still see your open applications while you search for something. 

Several times I've been stuck in metro -- clicking in the lower left corner does not get me back to the desktop instead it switches between metro apps. I get around it by clicking in the top left corner. Sometimes the only way to get to the desktop is to click the metro desktop 'app'. 





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  Reply # 740183 4-Jan-2013 16:06 Send private message

surfisup1000:
networkn:
There are a lot of intelligent experienced people who are struggling with Windows 8 because of Metro. Logic says that they made this transition too dramatic, and or that it's not what people want from an OS. 

Instead of insisting we are all stupid perhaps you could consider that instead. 

I can't even work out how to put apps on the desktop!



Some people are treating win8 like a religious experience.  Anyone not buying in must be considered an infidel or stupid for not spending the time to learn the hidden secrets of the wise ones. 

Why didn't MS simply keep the old start menu for desktop users, and let tablet users have metro?Problem solved. 

I object to having the 'metro' start taking my entire screen. I like the old start menu where you can still see your open applications while you search for something. 

Several times I've been stuck in metro -- clicking in the lower left corner does not get me back to the desktop instead it switches between metro apps. I get around it by clicking in the top left corner. Sometimes the only way to get to the desktop is to click the metro desktop 'app'. 






Agreed. Sometimes I just want to go back a step and sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.

Interestingly I know a recently ex core developer who crowed about Windows 8, told people to pull their heads in, that it was the best thing ever, then he left MS. Next time I spoke to him it was completely different and he said it was the worst thing he had ever seen MS do and he was glad to be out of it. It's not the first time I have seen a turn around from Ex MS Company employees in this manner. 

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  Reply # 740184 4-Jan-2013 16:08 Send private message

surfisup1000:
Several times I've been stuck in metro -- clicking in the lower left corner does not get me back to the desktop instead it switches between metro apps. I get around it by clicking in the top left corner. Sometimes the only way to get to the desktop is to click the metro desktop 'app'. 


Start + D
ALT + TAB

?



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  Reply # 740188 4-Jan-2013 16:16 Send private message

reven:
surfisup1000:
Several times I've been stuck in metro -- clicking in the lower left corner does not get me back to the desktop instead it switches between metro apps. I get around it by clicking in the top left corner. Sometimes the only way to get to the desktop is to click the metro desktop 'app'. 


Start + D
ALT + TAB

?




As opposed to what I do now, which is to find the open app I want on the start bar, hover over it to preview, and then click it.  

One additional point I'd like to make about the Windows 8 good or bad thing, is that there are significantly more people complaining about bad metro is than there are people saying how great it is. Not just in this thread but find any thread about Windows 8 and find the number of people who dislike it over like it? 

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  Reply # 740230 4-Jan-2013 18:34 Send private message

The biggest complaints seems to stem from

1) lack of start button
2) Keyboard/ mouse actions to imitate touch gestures

I rectified #1 in 30 seconds by downloading the free "ClassicShell" start menu which also allows settings such as start in desktop mode, change function of windows/home key etc. If you so desire you can live 100% in desktop mode

#2 was never going to be a problem for me as I have a touchscreen, but a quick google comes up with all the answers pretty quickly, failing that you can buy touchpads that give you gesture ability

Anyone that has gone through the MS Office transitions (2003 > 2007 > 2010) will recall the uproar over 2007 and it's ribbon, now 2007's ribbon seems antiquated compared to 2010's ribbon and in hindsight the ribbon is far superior product to traditional toolbars.

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  Reply # 740257 4-Jan-2013 19:28 Send private message

networkn:
reven:
surfisup1000:
Several times I've been stuck in metro -- clicking in the lower left corner does not get me back to the desktop instead it switches between metro apps. I get around it by clicking in the top left corner. Sometimes the only way to get to the desktop is to click the metro desktop 'app'. 


Start + D
ALT + TAB

?




As opposed to what I do now, which is to find the open app I want on the start bar, hover over it to preview, and then click it.  

One additional point I'd like to make about the Windows 8 good or bad thing, is that there are significantly more people complaining about bad metro is than there are people saying how great it is. Not just in this thread but find any thread about Windows 8 and find the number of people who dislike it over like it? 


Actually I think you will find that most people just get on with life - or have one.  People on forums of all types always complain more than praise - or just get on with things.  Its the nature of the beast.

I'm quite enjoying 8 - don't really see the need for the metro interface but some things like the quick search function are really nice.  I'm not keen on the way that there are essentially two ecosystems - the metro one and the desktop one, and tend to revert to desktop apps most of the time.

Its certainly a lot faster than Vista (I know, but 7 was too expensive to upgrade to, whilst 8 was very cheap).  I have also installed it on an old computer and its running great (although for some reason the tune-in app does not like the old computer).  The built in drivers and good wifi support are also great.

I'm quite amused by the degree of vitriol that people are showing for an operating system.  And if so called 'experienced' people cant work it out, whilst I can (an old 44 year old, who admittedly has been messing round with computers since before I was 10),  then I think we have some adaptive capacity issues :)



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  Reply # 741753 8-Jan-2013 16:41 Send private message

How has anyone's experience been with running multiple screens with Windows 8? I considering buying one of the new HP Spectre XT  laptops which comes with Win8. I'd use it with an external screen - and normally I run about 6-10 programs at the same time. 

Does it work like Win 7 - that I can extend the desktop over 2 screens? Can I have the metro apps in one window and a desktop in the other? 

Must say I hear a lot of sound and fury signifying that people need to change - doesn't look as big a change as  DOS to Windows 3 was though :-) 




I help authors publish their books - DIYPublishing.co.nz

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  Reply # 741760 8-Jan-2013 16:49 Send private message

lissie: How has anyone's experience been with running multiple screens with Windows 8?


Absolutely no problems using 2 screens here (24 + 23 inch, one 1900x1200 the other 1900x1080)


Does it work like Win 7 - that I can extend the desktop over 2 screens?

Yes, pretty much. I think it improves it a bit as covered by Scott Hanselman. Look for "Multi-Monitor Taskbars"


Can I have the metro apps in one window and a desktop in the other? 


Yes, I sometimes do this with the people app, which actually seems decent to me. You can also open the start screen on secondary monitor and then pressing the windows key will keep opening it on second monitor. This makes it far more palatable on the desktop IMO.

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  Reply # 741769 8-Jan-2013 17:02 Send private message

sidefx: 
Yes, pretty much. I think it improves it a bit as covered by Scott Hanselman. Look for "Multi-Monitor Taskbars"

Nice article thanks 


Yes, I sometimes do this with the people app, which actually seems decent to me. You can also open the start screen on secondary monitor and then pressing the windows key will keep opening it on second monitor. This makes it far more palatable on the desktop IMO.
 

Cool yeah that sounds like a good option to me too 




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  Reply # 741897 8-Jan-2013 20:23 Send private message

surfisup1000:
networkn:
There are a lot of intelligent experienced people who are struggling with Windows 8 because of Metro. Logic says that they made this transition too dramatic, and or that it's not what people want from an OS. 

Instead of insisting we are all stupid perhaps you could consider that instead. 

I can't even work out how to put apps on the desktop!



Some people are treating win8 like a religious experience.  Anyone not buying in must be considered an infidel or stupid for not spending the time to learn the hidden secrets of the wise ones. 

Why didn't MS simply keep the old start menu for desktop users, and let tablet users have metro?Problem solved. 



why did Microsoft make a graphical UI for IBM PC's... why couldn't they have left that to the apples and stuck with MSDOS for everything?

At some point you have to draw a line and move on.  sometimes the jump will be bigger than other times.  it may not feel like it makes sense now, but in another 4 years everyone might be wondering 'what happened to the desktop' when they move from tablet to phone to... television... to refrigerator...

windows 7 is still supported, and new apps to be built for the 'desktop' side of windows 8 will all most likely still work in windows 7 for years to come.  there is no rush to upgrade if it doesn't suit.

i'm not sure that the metro/desktop mix in win8 is quite perfect yet, but the more I use phone and tablet - the more I time I find myself using apps in the metro side of win8.  I'm looking forward to swapping my non-touch laptop for a tablet and getting 'the best of both worlds' - desktop when docked, tablet when I pick it up and take it home.




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aw

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  Reply # 741960 8-Jan-2013 22:07 Send private message

Wade: The biggest complaints seems to stem from

1) lack of start button


You'll find it on the keyboard ;)


Wade:
2) Keyboard/ mouse actions to imitate touch gestures


There I agree with you.

I've been testing Windows 8 on an HP Touchsmart PC, my own new Samsung ATIV 500, and earlier (non-touch) HP AIOs and an (also non-touch) Sony VAIO laptop. Honestly, the mouse movements to navigate Metro stuff is tiring and I would *not* recommend Windows 8 for devices without touch.

However, on touch-enabled hardware (desktop or laptop), Windows 8 shows a lot of potential and I really like it.

I'm now happily multitasking by swiping things in from the left, using Metro's split screen with both other Metro apps and the Desktop to jump between apps (having things like your mail snapped in to one side is handy), and very much enjoying the experience. Ribbon bars work better with touch than a mouse in my opinion too.

In short, Windows 8 really needs touch to be good. Metro has some growing up to do, but it shows a lot of promise.

Oh and the new Start screen is best navigated by typing what you want. Utilising search is key to doing things quickly.

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