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Topic # 100317 8-Apr-2012 23:59 Send private message

Recently this has been getting worse, but I'm not sure if it's the card or the machine. 
I've recently started using only my MasterCard when paying for things, and I've noticed quite a lot of stores have to swipe the card multiple times before they can insert the chip into the pinpad.
I can tell they get quite frustrated by this, and at McDonalds today at the drive through me and a mate were stuck there for a few minutes trying to get this thing to work before I fished out my old card from the back of my wallet. They swiped it about 10 times, tried inserting it first and got no where with the MasterCard, and I noticed it has a slightly slimmer black strip on the back, where as the debit card is much wider.
Could this possibly be the reason behind this problem?

I called ASB today and told them, they said it sounds like just a card issue so they've sent me a new one for nothing, but what if the problem persists with the new one? Is anyone else noticing this too?

-Sam 





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  Reply # 606910 9-Apr-2012 00:34 Send private message

they shouldn't have the swipe the card if your CC has a Chip in it... (As far as I know).




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  Reply # 606911 9-Apr-2012 00:35 Send private message

LennonNZ: they shouldn't have the swipe the card if your CC has a Chip in it... (As far as I know).



Thats what I thought, I told quite a few places that but they said some cards are different apparently and need to be swiped, then the machine tells them to insert which is very odd.  





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  Reply # 606912 9-Apr-2012 00:36 Send private message

If the card has a chip on it, it isn't even supposed to work when they swipe it at all - definitely sounds faulty.

I have a Westpac card with a chip, and attempting to swipe it results in an "Invalid Transaction" message, unless the terminal doesn't accept Chip+PIN cards.

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  Reply # 606915 9-Apr-2012 00:54 Send private message

How it's meant to work with cards with chips, is that unless the terminal doesn't support chips (n.b. iirc the compliance thing that was in the press prior to RWC actually means that there are none(?) that don't), the chip *must* be tried first.

The only reason that the swipe can be used is if the terminal decides that it cannot read the chip, which results in prompts, swiping the card off the bat should result in a message similar to "chip present, please insert card".  Width of card shouldn't really matter either.  I'd side with dud card, or clueless terminal operators.

The chips can fail, I had one in Australia that failed in about 7-8 months, I got so fed up of the "cannot read chip" error I got ANZ to replace the card, with banks putting 4 year expiry on some cards now, the problem is only going to get worse I'd say.

(I also seem to recall you a few months ago, talking about just getting the card, maybe this is just an out-of-envelope failure?)

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  Reply # 606916 9-Apr-2012 00:57 Send private message

tardtasticx:
LennonNZ: they shouldn't have the swipe the card if your CC has a Chip in it... (As far as I know).



Thats what I thought, I told quite a few places that but they said some cards are different apparently and need to be swiped, then the machine tells them to insert which is very odd.  


Some cards DO need to be swiped and then inserted, a real pain if your are the shop assistant - you insert then card as it has a chip, then it tells you to swipe it and as soon as you swipe it says insert again :(

Not sure if it is all MasterCards but I know that no visa/amex cards do this.

Those says these cards shouldn't swipe are wrong, the cards are designed to be swiped then inserted but who knows why it is a feature.

In regards to your card I would say you have an unlucky card and the replacement will work fine.



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  Reply # 606917 9-Apr-2012 00:58 Send private message

nigelj: How it's meant to work with cards with chips, is that unless the terminal doesn't support chips (n.b. iirc the compliance thing that was in the press prior to RWC actually means that there are none(?) that don't), the chip *must* be tried first.

The only reason that the swipe can be used is if the terminal decides that it cannot read the chip, which results in prompts, swiping the card off the bat should result in a message similar to "chip present, please insert card".  Width of card shouldn't really matter either.  I'd side with dud card, or clueless terminal operators.

The chips can fail, I had one in Australia that failed in about 7-8 months, I got so fed up of the "cannot read chip" error I got ANZ to replace the card, with banks putting 4 year expiry on some cards now, the problem is only going to get worse I'd say.

(I also seem to recall you a few months ago, talking about just getting the card, maybe this is just an out-of-envelope failure?)


Yeh this card isn't even 2 months old. It expires in 2015 too, I don't know how an everyday card can last that long, especially with the way some operators shove it into machines. 

And yeh, I was under the impression that an EFTPOS terminal had to accept chip cards or else it couldnt be used or something, whats the point of having a chip if the machine doesn't use it. Deff sounds like a failed card then if its not supposed to even work with the strip at all if the terminal supports chip.  





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  Reply # 606921 9-Apr-2012 01:06 Send private message

tardtasticx: Yeh this card isn't even 2 months old. It expires in 2015 too, I don't know how an everyday card can last that long, especially with the way some operators shove it into machines. 

Exactly why I like "mess with the card yourself machines", I know exactly how nicely to treat my card ;)

And yeh, I was under the impression that an EFTPOS terminal had to accept chip cards or else it couldnt be used or something, whats the point of having a chip if the machine doesn't use it. Deff sounds like a failed card then if its not supposed to even work with the strip at all if the terminal supports chip.  


They still have to meet the old swipe standards, and accept a swipe, it's just that now it's intended purely as a fall back, and machines are meant to in the event the chip hasn't been tried first, demand that the chip be tried.

There are always exemptions to this rule, but my understanding is that this is 'how it's meant to be' under the NZ compliance/industry standards.

But yes, my thinking is that you got a dud card for sure.

If you want to see spectactular failures of logic... try use an NZ-issued American Express, with Chip+PIN (Westpac offers this, not sure about others) in Australia, different types of machines handles it completely differently and all seem to choke one way or another with it.

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  Reply # 606941 9-Apr-2012 07:39 Send private message

jbard:Some cards DO need to be swiped and then inserted, a real pain if your are the shop assistant - you insert then card as it has a chip, then it tells you to swipe it and as soon as you swipe it says insert again :(



This isn't a card specific thing, it's terminal specific. There is at least one brand of terminal out there that works this way, and it's a limitation of the current firmware.

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  Reply # 606942 9-Apr-2012 07:43 Send private message

I visit a retailer quite frequently that doesn't even use the chip card reader. My chip card only needs to be swiped and works first time. How their terminal possibly managed to stay connected to the network after the cull of old terminals last year amazes me.


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  Reply # 606946 9-Apr-2012 08:19 Send private message

I've noticed that some terminals have a "quick fallback" when it says to insert the card. If you do a swift in-out motion then it'll see the chip but fail to read it, ask you to swipe, and then process the transaction the old way, i.e. significantly more quickly than the new way!

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  Reply # 606947 9-Apr-2012 08:20 Send private message

Behodar:... and then process the transaction the old way, i.e. significantly more quickly than the new way!


It's incredible how slow those chip transactions are... Compared to swiping the card it takes forever for it to ask for PIN, then another eternal life to actually process the transaction. 
 




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  Reply # 606950 9-Apr-2012 08:25 Send private message

Plus with the old system you can put the card back in your wallet while it's processing. The time taken by the whole process shocked me when I first got my chip card; I never thought that technology would be getting slower!

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  Reply # 606958 9-Apr-2012 08:45 Send private message

Yep my ASB chip card did this, had to swipe, insert, then swipe. Only at some retailers, was a real PITA.
Got card replaced with what I suspect is newer version, now doesn't do this anymore.

Cheers,
Joseph

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  Reply # 606962 9-Apr-2012 09:03 Send private message

Behodar: Plus with the old system you can put the card back in your wallet while it's processing. The time taken by the whole process shocked me when I first got my chip card; I never thought that technology would be getting slower!


The speed of EMV transactions depends entirely on the terminal type, and whether it's on dialup or broadband. A modern terminal on broadband has virtually identical transaction times for EMV cards as it does for mag stripe cards.

On dialup the transaction could be started while the terminal was dialling out, with EMV this can't take place until the dialup connection is in place.


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  Reply # 607055 9-Apr-2012 14:43 Send private message

sbiddle:
Behodar: Plus with the old system you can put the card back in your wallet while it's processing. The time taken by the whole process shocked me when I first got my chip card; I never thought that technology would be getting slower!


The speed of EMV transactions depends entirely on the terminal type, and whether it's on dialup or broadband. A modern terminal on broadband has virtually identical transaction times for EMV cards as it does for mag stripe cards.

On dialup the transaction could be started while the terminal was dialling out, with EMV this can't take place until the dialup connection is in place.



Agreed.  Our cafe uses eftpos over broadband and the transaction is very quick.  Customers are often surprised as they are anticipating a long wait. 




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