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24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 726249 3-Dec-2012 15:34

bagheera:
Maisy:
wellygary: she was a digital artist and therefore needed the screen to be in perfect condition,


But she will not get it checked by a professional, and did not change your screen saver to a blank one so she could check the screen to pass her "perfect condition" test.....

Oh yeah, and this "digital artist" is buying a 5 year old computer, if it needs it to be perfect the only way to guarantee that is to check it yourself (which she did) or buy new,


Nah, she has no leg to stand 


Yup, this is a pretty good summary of my thoughts on the matter!


same - have also had line on monitor caused by moving house - was fine before move but was move with something touching the screen which caused the lines (and have never trusted anyone to move my pc / monitor ever again - always move it myself and normal a special trip with just the pc so not to over load the car) - when buying from trade me, i always buy knowing i have no come back if it what advertised - as she check it and said she was happy with the pc, it a done deal at that point. The only sicking point is it not your trade me account


Thanks, that's useful to know! 

Re the Trademe Account; she was also using someone else's account (her husband's), so I guess that we are equally at fault on that matter?

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  Reply # 726250 3-Dec-2012 15:37 Send private message

Maisy:
Maisy:
networkn: Maisy.

I understand what you are saying, but if you bought the computer from her, and when you got it home noticed this issue, which is pretty much sure to have existed but gone unnoticed before, would you be happy to accept it wasn't in good condition? What does the description of the auction say? Fault free? Excellent Condition? If so, you have an obligation to refund her.

I would take it back and relist it and note the lines on the screen and say they aren't present on dark backgrounds. Someone with less requirement around this will buy it for less but you will still be rid of it, and have a clear conscience.



Hmm, but what about my safety as a seller;

As it will take me at least a couple of months to save up the money to repay her, how am I to ensure that she does not damage the computer in this time? I suppose in theory we could consider an arrangement wherein, after collecting the funds, I could then inspect the computer and then, if the computer was still in good condition (minus these lines), offer a refund. Sigh! This is no fun :'(


... But even then, one of us would need to be willing to arrange a professional inspection to determine whether the lines were caused by transportation (she put it in her boot to take it home) or whether they are indicative of longstanding deterioration. The fact that neither of us saw these lines prior to the purchase makes me feel cautious about taking responsibility without information from a neutral third party.


Forget the fact that you have no money to pay her back. Thats not the buyers problem.

- If you had the money would you give her a refund?
- If you were in her shoes, you bought the computer, got home and noticed the screen. Would you have expected a refund?

If you answered yes to either of those questions I think you need to make good.

Once you have made up your mind you going to refund her, explain your situation and a plan to refund her.

981 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 726251 3-Dec-2012 15:40 Send private message

It sounds like under law that the buyer here loses out.

But to me it comes down to how harsh you want to be. The buyer could not have inspected in the same detail, they may have not ever used a Mac external screen before. Even if I am browsing tablets/phones in a store I am greatly at a lost. They contacted you soon after. It doesn't appear they could have created those defects.

One time on TM, I bought a used laptop, he had a v good feedback record. I paid cash in good faith and I got the tablet laptop with all kinds of scratches on it. At least if you are away from sun glare you don't see them. I parted $600 and was annoyed.  It was shipped to me, didn't have the luxury to pick up.  He also sold it off behalf of someone else and later I found that the picture he posted was not in fact of the laptop sitting on the carpet, it was actually a picture taken off the internet off a laptop review webpage.

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 726254 3-Dec-2012 15:46 Send private message

  It doesn't appear they could have created those defects.

.


transport in a boot of a car could have easily cause this. I would never transport a imac in boot of a car with out the packing box it came in - so easy to crack the screen or knock lose the graphic card which both can cause lines on screen.

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  Reply # 726255 3-Dec-2012 15:46 Send private message

Maisy:
networkn: Maisy.

I understand what you are saying, but if you bought the computer from her, and when you got it home noticed this issue, which is pretty much sure to have existed but gone unnoticed before, would you be happy to accept it wasn't in good condition? What does the description of the auction say? Fault free? Excellent Condition? If so, you have an obligation to refund her.

I would take it back and relist it and note the lines on the screen and say they aren't present on dark backgrounds. Someone with less requirement around this will buy it for less but you will still be rid of it, and have a clear conscience.



Hmm, but what about my safety as a seller;

As it will take me at least a couple of months to save up the money to repay her, how am I to ensure that she does not damage the computer in this time? I suppose in theory we could consider an arrangement wherein, after collecting the funds, I could then inspect the computer and then, if the computer was still in good condition (minus these lines), offer a refund. Sigh! This is no fun :'(


don't know what you are worried for.  the buyer is the one in trouble.
you have no reason to give her a refund even if you were rich and could afford it. the fact that you aren;t gives you even more reaosn not to help her out. she needs toleanr her lesson that if she wants high quality, she needs to pay for it.

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  Reply # 726259 3-Dec-2012 15:50 Send private message

Maisy:

Re the Trademe Account; she was also using someone else's account (her husband's), so I guess that we are equally at fault on that matter?


Is your Mom an authenticated trademe user?

If yes, and you used her account then in a way the buyer could claim that she thought u were an authenticated user. A trusted user and you sold her a dud. You need to be an authenticated user to sell, this is not required to bid.

The same can be said about your moms ratings of which they mostly apply to her dealings on trademe, not yours. The buyer could have used those ratings to make her decision on her purchase. But she was unaware that she was actually dealing with somebody else.

If she knew would she have made the purchase? I personally always look at sellers ratings before purchasing.

If I was in her shoes and was really unhappy I would be taking this up with trademe. As its clearly a breach of the Contractual Remedies Act below. She could have been persuaded to buy the item because of your Moms good trademe ratings. But in fact it was not your Mom she was dealing with ...

bagheera: and Contractual Remedies Act says http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/shopping/where-you-buy/online-auctions

The Contractual Remedies Act may give you some protection when you are buying from a private seller. However, to seek a remedy under this Act you must show:
  • you were persuaded to buy the item by what the seller said about it, and
  • what the seller said was untrue, and
  • the seller’s untruths caused you to lose money – eg, by having to pay for repairs when the seller told you the item was in excellent condition.


the fact you let her look at and test the item will make it hard for her to say it was not what you said -ie in good working order.




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  Reply # 726263 3-Dec-2012 15:53 Send private message

I am of the opinion that this issue could have  easily been caused by the purchaser transporting the computer, unless she can prove otherwise with an expert opinion I would NOT be refunding her, and yes it would be at her cost to do this, and no IF it was proved to be faulty before purchase I wouldn't refund her that cost too if you had decided to refund the purchase.




I know a little more than nothing but not much...

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 726264 3-Dec-2012 15:54 Send private message

BraaiGuy:
Maisy:

Re the Trademe Account; she was also using someone else's account (her husband's), so I guess that we are equally at fault on that matter?


Is your Mom an authenticated trademe user?

If yes, and you used her account then in a way the buyer could claim that she thought u were an authenticated user. A trusted user and you sold her a dud. You need to be an authenticated user to sell, this is not required to bid.

The same can be said about your moms ratings of which they mostly apply to her dealings on trademe, not yours. She could have used those ratings to make her decision on her purchase. But she was unaware that she was not actually dealing with somebody else.

If she knew whould she have made the purchase?

If I was in her shoes and was really unhappy I would be taking this up with trademe. As its clearly a breach of the Contractual Remedies Act below. She could have been persuaded to buy the item because of your Moms good trademe ratings. But in fact it was not your Mom she was dealing with ...

bagheera: and Contractual Remedies Act says http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/shopping/where-you-buy/online-auctions

The Contractual Remedies Act may give you some protection when you are buying from a private seller. However, to seek a remedy under this Act you must show:
  • you were persuaded to buy the item by what the seller said about it, and
  • what the seller said was untrue, and
  • the seller’s untruths caused you to lose money – eg, by having to pay for repairs when the seller told you the item was in excellent condition.


the fact you let her look at and test the item will make it hard for her to say it was not what you said -ie in good working order.




yep - total agreed - if this was your account then no leg to stand on, but as it not, then she sort of got a leg to stand on with that as her best shot at getting her money back.

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  Reply # 726266 3-Dec-2012 15:55 Send private message

Maisy: (she put it in her boot to take it home)


Surprised , I am hoping it was boxed in its original packaging, and strapped down, 

Otherwise you may have just described the source of the lines.....

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  Reply # 726267 3-Dec-2012 15:57 Send private message

And PS: SHould it not be your moms decision if she gives the refund or not?

893 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 726269 3-Dec-2012 16:00 Send private message

Maisy:
She then replied saying that (1) she believed the lines were indicative of a longstanding issue and therefore our responsibility, (2) that she was not willing to have it looked at by a professional, (3) that they could not have possibly been caused by bumps during transportation, (4) that the lines were barely noticable but that she was a digital artist and therefore needed the screen to be in perfect condition, (5) that they simply had not been noticable at the time of viewing due to "dark desktop wallpaper" (it was a photo of bright green leaves), and (6) that she wanted a refund.



If a perfect screen was such an important feature why didn't she test that?  It is a bit like me purchasing a second hand car and complaining that the indicator tick was too quiet.  If it was such an important feature you would surely test that prior to agreeing to the purchase.

If i was in your shoes i would simply apologize that she is unhappy but politely refuse to refund the money.  It is up to you at the end of the day.

Another thought, is she able to provide a photo of the issue or some sort of proof? 

Also, as mentioned before, the issue may have been caused by the move of the machine, can she prove that it was placed in a position that would not have damaged it?

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  Reply # 726271 3-Dec-2012 16:02 Send private message

jaymz:
Maisy:
She then replied saying that (1) she believed the lines were indicative of a longstanding issue and therefore our responsibility, (2) that she was not willing to have it looked at by a professional, (3) that they could not have possibly been caused by bumps during transportation, (4) that the lines were barely noticable but that she was a digital artist and therefore needed the screen to be in perfect condition, (5) that they simply had not been noticable at the time of viewing due to "dark desktop wallpaper" (it was a photo of bright green leaves), and (6) that she wanted a refund.



If a perfect screen was such an important feature why didn't she test that?  It is a bit like me purchasing a second hand car and complaining that the indicator tick was too quiet.  If it was such an important feature you would surely test that prior to agreeing to the purchase.


This is not even REMOTELY the same thing. The indicator on a car is part of it's NORMAL operation, complaining about that isn't fair, however the lines on the screen are NOT Normal.

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  Reply # 726272 3-Dec-2012 16:03 Send private message

BraaiGuy:
Maisy:

Re the Trademe Account; she was also using someone else's account (her husband's), so I guess that we are equally at fault on that matter?


Is your Mom an authenticated trademe user?

If yes, and you used her account then in a way the buyer could claim that she thought u were an authenticated user. A trusted user and you sold her a dud. You need to be an authenticated user to sell, this is not required to bid.

The same can be said about your moms ratings of which they mostly apply to her dealings on trademe, not yours. She could have used those ratings to make her decision on her purchase. But she was unaware that she was actually dealing with somebody else.

If she knew would she have made the purchase? I personally always look at sellers ratings before purchasing.

If I was in her shoes and was really unhappy I would be taking this up with trademe. As its clearly a breach of the Contractual Remedies Act below. She could have been persuaded to buy the item because of your Moms good trademe ratings. But in fact it was not your Mom she was dealing with ...

bagheera: and Contractual Remedies Act says http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-consumers/shopping/where-you-buy/online-auctions

The Contractual Remedies Act may give you some protection when you are buying from a private seller. However, to seek a remedy under this Act you must show:
  • you were persuaded to buy the item by what the seller said about it, and
  • what the seller said was untrue, and
  • the seller’s untruths caused you to lose money – eg, by having to pay for repairs when the seller told you the item was in excellent condition.


the fact you let her look at and test the item will make it hard for her to say it was not what you said -ie in good working order.



  sounds to me like it is referring to misrepresentations about the item, rathr than the standing of the seller.  i.e. if the seller had said "perfect working condition" and was lying then they would have comeback, but if the seller said "you can trust me since I know the prime minister" then you can't.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 726277 3-Dec-2012 16:11 Send private message

networkn:
jaymz:
Maisy:
She then replied saying that (1) she believed the lines were indicative of a longstanding issue and therefore our responsibility, (2) that she was not willing to have it looked at by a professional, (3) that they could not have possibly been caused by bumps during transportation, (4) that the lines were barely noticable but that she was a digital artist and therefore needed the screen to be in perfect condition, (5) that they simply had not been noticable at the time of viewing due to "dark desktop wallpaper" (it was a photo of bright green leaves), and (6) that she wanted a refund.



If a perfect screen was such an important feature why didn't she test that?  It is a bit like me purchasing a second hand car and complaining that the indicator tick was too quiet.  If it was such an important feature you would surely test that prior to agreeing to the purchase.


This is not even REMOTELY the same thing. The indicator on a car is part of it's NORMAL operation, complaining about that isn't fair, however the lines on the screen are NOT Normal.


I was merely using this as an example of how when purchasing something and you require it for a specific function then surely you would test this given the chance.

if you must, change "indicator tick too quiet" to "indicator doesn't auto cancel"



24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 726278 3-Dec-2012 16:14

BraaiGuy: And PS: SHould it not be your moms decision if she gives the refund or not?


Braai, you obviously feel quite passionately about this issue, which is useful, but tone feels snarky. Let's keep this friendly, please. 

Yes, I have had a dialogue with my mother about this issue and in her opinion, the buyer is at fault. She knows that the computer was in good condition when it was purchased. I am a "digital artist" too, and the computer was used in my graduation exhibition. I have never had problems with the screen and we both find it difficult to believe that I would not have noticed these lines if they were present at the time of purchase.

If the item had been sold through my account, the buyer would have had the same information to go on; I too am an authenticated user and have received 99% positive feedback on a large number of trades. The reason that the computer was sold on her account rather than mine is that my account is in debt, and I did not have money to top it back up at that time. The computer was sold to contribute towards rectifying my financial issues. Being a student is tough.

Regarding the "in her shoes" comment;

I now been on both sides of this kind of dilemma. A while ago I purchased a car on Trademe and was foolish enough to do so without having a thorough inspection done. It turned out to have all sorts of little issues which were not described by the seller. Perhaps he didn't know about them, perhaps he lied, or perhaps they can be accounted for by my own actions whilst it was in my possession. In this circumstance, I took responsibility for the fact that I had neglected to have it checked out properly. The seller needs rights too, otherwise buyers have free license to damage goods, to change their minds, or to replace their own damaged goods (ie she may have replaced her faulty iMac with mine) at the seller's expense.

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