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28 posts

Geek


  Reply # 726280 3-Dec-2012 16:15 Send private message

You don't owe the buyer anything.

The buyer inspected, deemed the goods to be as described, and took them home.

At home they noticed that the goods were no longer as described.  How exactly can they prove that they didn't do the damage? Perhaps they dropped the monitor whilst transporting it?

The issue of the Trademe account is a red herring and is not an issue unless/if Trademe starts asking questions.

I frankly cannot understand the many responses here who seem to suggest that you need to pay the buyer back even though you are a private seller, the Consumer Guarantees Act does not apply, the buyer inspected the items and thought they were fine, and only on return with the goods to their house suggested that they weren't.



24 posts

Geek


  Reply # 726282 3-Dec-2012 16:16

astrial: You don't owe the buyer anything.

The buyer inspected, deemed the goods to be as described, and took them home.

At home they noticed that the goods were no longer as described.  How exactly can they prove that they didn't do the damage? Perhaps they dropped the monitor whilst transporting it?

The issue of the Trademe account is a red herring and is not an issue unless/if Trademe starts asking questions.

I frankly cannot understand the many responses here who seem to suggest that you need to pay the buyer back even though you are a private seller, the Consumer Guarantees Act does not apply, the buyer inspected the items and thought they were fine, and only on return with the goods to their house suggested that they weren't.


Much appreciated.

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  Reply # 726292 3-Dec-2012 16:25 Send private message

BraaiGuy:
xpd:
BraaiGuy:

You do realise that by using your moms account you are breaching Trademe's T&C?



There goes 75% of TradeMe's users.

Regardless of that fact, the buyer was happy with the goods at the time of purchase, unfortuantely its tough bikkies...  Ive had the same happen to me with "great condition" goods, asked for refund, was refused, so lived with it. 




haha funny

if you open a second account from the same house you get banned. which one do you prefer?




Apologies for poor typing standards when on Samsung Galaxy S4 LTE/iPad 2 Wifi

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 726296 3-Dec-2012 16:31 Send private message

astrial:
The issue of the Trademe account is a red herring and is not an issue unless/if Trademe starts asking questions.

I frankly cannot understand the many responses here who seem to suggest that you need to pay the buyer back even though you are a private seller, the Consumer Guarantees Act does not apply, the buyer inspected the items and thought they were fine, and only on return with the goods to their house suggested that they weren't.


it could go either way in court the way i see it - ie court could take the view of you was not acting legally as you was not the owner of the account and there by voids the sale, but could just as easy go  the other way as the account was used with mother knowledge and authorised the auction, then it come down to what on the auction and did the buyer do anything that may have cause the damage - and putting in the boot of car not in the shipping packaging, then that ground for maybe. without expert statement saying that it was not due to shipping and was due to x prior to sale then they got nothing.

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Geek


  Reply # 726303 3-Dec-2012 16:42 Send private message

bagheera:

it could go either way in court the way i see it - ie court could take the view of you was not acting legally as you was not the owner of the account and there by voids the sale, but could just as easy go  the other way as the account was used with mother knowledge and authorised the auction, then it come down to what on the auction and did the buyer do anything that may have cause the damage - and putting in the boot of car not in the shipping packaging, then that ground for maybe. without expert statement saying that it was not due to shipping and was due to x prior to sale then they got nothing.


IANAL but the above argument is preposterous.  The seller privately traded an item to another private party who undertook an inspection and deemed the goods to be as described.

A supposed, maybe, wishywashy possibility that the user breached Trademe's T&C by selling the item instead of her mother (who is aware of the sale and use of that account) is not breaking the law.

gzt

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  Reply # 726321 3-Dec-2012 17:01 Send private message

Maisy: I am a "digital artist" too, and the computer was used in my graduation exhibition. I have never had problems with the screen and we both find it difficult to believe that I would not have noticed these lines if they were present at the time of purchase.

This is the key issue. You have very good reason to believe it was fine when the buyer took possession. Therefore you have no legal obligation to offer a refund.

I'm not sure exactly why other posters are 100% convinced the problem existed before buyer transport and are 100% sure the problem could not have been caused during buyer transport. Perhaps those posters should try to explain their reasoning.

Like you If I had any doubt I would probably just offer a refund and resell it anyway and it will probably go for a similar price with this minor issue. It is unfortunate in this case you do not have this option, but if it did not have this problem before buyer transport then you have no legal obligation to do that.

Also you saved the life of a stray cat since then which makes you the winner - photo please : ).

BDFL
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  Reply # 726331 3-Dec-2012 17:18 Send private message

joker97:
BraaiGuy:
xpd:
BraaiGuy:

You do realise that by using your moms account you are breaching Trademe's T&C?



There goes 75% of TradeMe's users.

Regardless of that fact, the buyer was happy with the goods at the time of purchase, unfortuantely its tough bikkies...  Ive had the same happen to me with "great condition" goods, asked for refund, was refused, so lived with it. 




haha funny

if you open a second account from the same house you get banned. which one do you prefer?


A little off topic, but not necessarily. I have my account, my wife's got her own account. We both access from here. Mine was created in 2000, hers in 2001 (or around that). Both authenticated, never had a problem with accessing from the same address (we have the same IP for the last ten years).




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  Reply # 726332 3-Dec-2012 17:18 Send private message

Maisy:
The buyer came over on Friday afternoon and had a play with the computer before agreeing that it was in good condition, handing over cash and taking it home.

....

(5) that they simply had not been noticable at the time of viewing due to "dark desktop wallpaper" (it was a photo of bright green leaves)


Did her inspection involve just staring at your desktop wallpaper or did she try other things? If she tried other things why didn't she notice these lines then? Did you tak her up on the offer to see these lines?

Given she inspected and accepted it before purchase I'd say you're not obliged to do anything. But yeah, very unfortunate situation :(

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  Reply # 726342 3-Dec-2012 17:27 Send private message

Maisy:
BraaiGuy: And PS: SHould it not be your moms decision if she gives the refund or not?


Braai, you obviously feel quite passionately about this issue, which is useful, but tone feels snarky. Let's keep this friendly, please.



Just playing devils advocate.

As the item was listed against trademe's T&C I feel the item should not have been listed in the first place, therefore there is no discussion needed to determine if a refund is warranted or not. 

But its your call. I think you have a moral obligation to now make sure the buyer was aware that they were buying something listed under your Moms trademe account (where all feedback etc is not yours)

You state that you have your own trademe account? Why did you choose to not use it? Would the trader have still purchased the item if you had listed it yourself? What are your trademe ratings like? Maybe you are a new user? All of those are valid questions that the buyer was entitled to know before making the purchase? As I mentioned, when I buy off trademe one of the first things I do is check previous feedback. If you think its fare on the buyer in this case then thats your opinion.

The buyer has the right to return the item if they feel they were mislead. I'm not saying she was but I am saying that there is a possibility. 

If the computer was broken, well thats a different discussion.

Not trying to be "snarky" Just putting myself in this buyers shoes. 

Edit:

Re-read and saw the reason.

Maisy: If the item had been sold through my account, the buyer would have had the same information to go on; I too am an authenticated user and have received 99% positive feedback on a large number of trades. The reason that the computer was sold on her account rather than mine is that my account is in debt, and I did not have money to top it back up at that time. The computer was sold to contribute towards rectifying my financial issues. Being a student is tough.


Its not up to you to decided if your account is good enough for the buyer. Thats the buyers decision. In this case she saw your Mom's profile. A simple note inside the listing details would have probably been enough. It may have been the difference between her making the purchase or not. 

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  Reply # 726346 3-Dec-2012 17:37 Send private message

gzt:

I'm not sure exactly why other posters are 100% convinced the problem existed before buyer transport and are 100% sure the problem could not have been caused during buyer transport. Perhaps those posters should try to explain their reasoning.


Not 100% certain, but a high probably because the OP said the following in their original post about the lines being 'very faint'.


We stated that we had never seen problems with the screen, and reminded her that she had viewed the item before taking it home, acknowledging that there were no visible issues at the time.
She then replied saying that (1) she believed the lines were indicative of a longstanding issue and therefore our responsibility,
that the lines were barely noticable but that she was a digital artist and therefore needed the screen to be in perfect condition,
that they simply had not been noticable at the time of viewing due to "dark desktop wallpaper" (it was a photo of bright green leaves)


Being a designer myself, I know that a general computer user wouldn't notice these things, unless you were working on design work, as I have seen these sort of the defects on screens before, and most people wouldn't have even noticed them as a defect or even noticed them at all. Infact on some cheap monitors they probably wouldn't even be considered defects.
Sure it may have been knocked during transport, but I think that is more likely to cause major vertical lines, and I have experienced that too in the past, and those lines are likely to be a totally different colour. From what the OP said these lines are very minor and are slight discolorations.
I think there is a likely hood that the OP unknowingly sold a computer with a defective screen. No ones fault, but if I was the buyer and had paid what is quite a good price, I wouldn't be all that happy. But that said I would have partly blamed myself for not inspecting it better at the sellers house.

The only time I have purchased a computer off trademe was an old apple g5, and the seller actually told me if I had any problems with it, just to contact him. I didn't check it at their house, I just picked it up, and it worked fine.




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  Reply # 726348 3-Dec-2012 17:39 Send private message

p
sidefx:
Maisy: 
The buyer came over on Friday afternoon and had a play with the computer before agreeing that it was in good condition, handing over cash and taking it home.

....

(5) that they simply had not been noticable at the time of viewing due to "dark desktop wallpaper" (it was a photo of bright green leaves)


Did her inspection involve just staring at your desktop wallpaper or did she try other things? If she tried other things why didn't she notice these lines then? Did you tak her up on the offer to see these lines?

Given she inspected and accepted it before purchase I'd say you're not obliged to do anything. But yeah, very unfortunate situation :(


The OP original post discusses this. The OPs wallpaper was quite dark, it wasn't until they changed it at home, that the buyer saw the problem. 

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  Reply # 726349 3-Dec-2012 17:42 Send private message

No she doesn't.

She could have, and likely caused the issue end of story, the account used is irrelevent to the out come here.




I know a little more than nothing but not much...

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  Reply # 726350 3-Dec-2012 17:42 Send private message



I frankly cannot understand the many responses here who seem to suggest that you need to pay the buyer back even though you are a private seller, the Consumer Guarantees Act does not apply, the buyer inspected the items and thought they were fine, and only on return with the goods to their house suggested that they weren't.


Although the CGA doesn't apply, the buyer could take the seller to the disputes tribunal.  Read prior posts on how difficult it is to do an inspection of a complex machine in such a short period of time.

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  Reply # 726353 3-Dec-2012 17:49 Send private message

I think there is some middle ground here as there isn't any definitive answer that has been given. Do some research as to what the issue could be and if it isn't anything major reach some accord with buyer as to its repair. Sending it to a tech could be quite expensive but also an option but being that it hasn't been established that there is a fault or how it was caused I think there is some good faith that the seller should show as would be expected if the roles were reversed.





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  Reply # 726354 3-Dec-2012 17:50 Send private message

mattwnz:
The OP original post discusses this. The OPs wallpaper was quite dark, it wasn't until they changed it at home, that the buyer saw the problem. 


I think you miss my point... surely if she "had a play" during the inspection she would have opened programs that would have covered the wallpaper and at this point she could\should have noticed the issue?

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