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  Reply # 726356 3-Dec-2012 18:00 Send private message

Truckloads of smack being spoken here. The buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on. Tell her to knob-off and be done with it.




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  Reply # 726357 3-Dec-2012 18:02 Send private message

sidefx:
mattwnz:
The OP original post discusses this. The OPs wallpaper was quite dark, it wasn't until they changed it at home, that the buyer saw the problem. 


I think you miss my point... surely if she "had a play" during the inspection she would have opened programs that would have covered the wallpaper and at this point she could\should have noticed the issue?


Not always. It  depends on the colour being displayed. I have found displaying a mid range grey colours on the screen often shows screen defects. White background windows, or dark wallpapers can hide  problems.  In the past when I have purhased a new monitor, i have taken a laptop with a screen checker on it to test for screen defects instore and any defective pixels. Have rejected a few screens after testing. The buyer should have probably done more testing when picking it up if the screen quality was so impoartant, but we don't know how thoroughly they did test it. They would have probably had more comeback if they hadn't tested it.

The OP did suggest that the buyer should get to professionally checked out. This is possibly what they should do, because that way it will show if it has been knocked. But if the professional finds the problem to be not related to any physical damage or thebuyer has done, then I think the OP possibly should  refund them plus the cost of inspection? The thing is that 'faint vertical lines', sounds to me like it is a problem that has always been there, or developed over time. We are talking about an older computer, and screens can deteriorate.

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  Reply # 726360 3-Dec-2012 18:07 Send private message

Dratsab: Truckloads of smack being spoken here. The buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on. Tell her to knob-off and be done with it.


But that could possibily result in problems, such as a claim with the DT, as it sounds like the buyer believes the goods weren't described properly in the auction.
What loss will the seller face firstly inspecting the computer to make sure it hasn't been damaged and is in the same condition it was sold in, and then reselling it again? That way at least they could tell whether it has been damaged by the buyer or not. If the lines are really bad and they weren't like that originally, then there is a strong likelihood it was damaged in transit by the buyer. Unfortunately the OP hasn't given us enough information really to know. They really should sort it out and check it's current condition with the buyer rather than post the problem here.

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  Reply # 726361 3-Dec-2012 18:09 Send private message

jeffnz: I think there is some middle ground here as there isn't any definitive answer that has been given. Do some research as to what the issue could be and if it isn't anything major reach some accord with buyer as to its repair. Sending it to a tech could be quite expensive but also an option but being that it hasn't been established that there is a fault or how it was caused I think there is some good faith that the seller should show as would be expected if the roles were reversed.



Sending it to a tech is expensive compared to the cost of the computer, and who would pay that cost if it is proven to be a problem with the computer and not damage caused by transit. The Buyer and Seller really need to talk and go through the options.

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  Reply # 726363 3-Dec-2012 18:16 Send private message

mattwnz:
jeffnz: I think there is some middle ground here as there isn't any definitive answer that has been given. Do some research as to what the issue could be and if it isn't anything major reach some accord with buyer as to its repair. Sending it to a tech could be quite expensive but also an option but being that it hasn't been established that there is a fault or how it was caused I think there is some good faith that the seller should show as would be expected if the roles were reversed.



Sending it to a tech is expensive compared to the cost of the computer, and who would pay that cost if it is proven to be a problem with the computer and not damage caused by transit. The Buyer and Seller really need to talk and go through the options.


sorry I thought that was what I had said that they need to talk and get it sorted as there is no one answer.




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  Reply # 726374 3-Dec-2012 18:38

They really should sort it out and check it's current condition with the buyer rather than post the problem here.


Yup, this has gotten very complicated! I basically posted here to see (1) what legalities were involved and (2) whether popular opinion favored one outcome over another. When I googled the issue this website came up and it seems as though these forums have helped others in similar situations suss out the best course of action.

From what I gather, I have two options; either go out of my way to be accommodating, which would carry various risks, or to be firm with the buyer about her responsibilities and potentially end up at the disputes tribunal, at which point the results could go either way (there seem to be various opinions about this).

I don't think that there is a right or wrong opinion based on the fact that the origin of the lines hasn't been determined.



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  Reply # 726376 3-Dec-2012 18:41

Maisy:
They really should sort it out and check it's current condition with the buyer rather than post the problem here.


Yup, this has gotten very complicated! I basically posted here to see (1) what legalities were involved and (2) whether popular opinion favored one outcome over another. When I googled the issue this website came up and it seems as though these forums have helped others in similar situations suss out the best course of action.

From what I gather, I have two options; either go out of my way to be accommodating, which would carry various risks, or to be firm with the buyer about her responsibilities and potentially end up at the disputes tribunal, at which point the results could go either way (there seem to be various opinions about this).

I don't think that there is a right or wrong opinion based on the fact that the origin of the lines hasn't been determined.


.... nor are they likely to be determined, I guess. All I do know is that it seemed fine to us both; and yes, she did open programs etc which indicates that she was able to view the screen with both light and dark backgrounds.

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  Reply # 726380 3-Dec-2012 18:50 Send private message

Maisy: They really should sort it out and check it's current condition with the buyer rather than post the problem here. 


If it was me, I would probably go and see what it is like, and will l basically get an instant answer as to whether it was damaged, as you will know what the screen was like before hand. Or get them to send you a photo of the screen with various backgrounds. If it was damaged, just tell them that that wasn't the condition you sold it in, and it has occurred since they picked it up. 



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  Reply # 726417 3-Dec-2012 19:38

gzt:
Maisy: I am a "digital artist" too, and the computer was used in my graduation exhibition. I have never had problems with the screen and we both find it difficult to believe that I would not have noticed these lines if they were present at the time of purchase.

This is the key issue. You have very good reason to believe it was fine when the buyer took possession. Therefore you have no legal obligation to offer a refund.

I'm not sure exactly why other posters are 100% convinced the problem existed before buyer transport and are 100% sure the problem could not have been caused during buyer transport. Perhaps those posters should try to explain their reasoning.

Like you If I had any doubt I would probably just offer a refund and resell it anyway and it will probably go for a similar price with this minor issue. It is unfortunate in this case you do not have this option, but if it did not have this problem before buyer transport then you have no legal obligation to do that.

Also you saved the life of a stray cat since then which makes you the winner - photo please : ).


OOoh, I am glad that you asked - it was all very heart-wrenching and I'm soo glad that I had the money to be able to pay for vet bills instead of leaving him to the SPCA where he may have been deemed un-adoptable and put down.









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  Reply # 726422 3-Dec-2012 19:57 Send private message

mattwnz:

Although the CGA doesn't apply, the buyer could take the seller to the disputes tribunal.  Read prior posts on how difficult it is to do an inspection of a complex machine in such a short period of time.


If it is difficult to do an inspection of a complex machine (a monitor, I assume by LOOKING at it?), then the buyer should have taken all the time they thought reasonable to undertake the inspection.

The buyer CAN take the seller to the disputes tribunal.  That's actually the worst bit about this because the buyer had the opportunity to satisfy themselves prior to purchase, and then made the accusation after the fact.  The seller will have to take an afternoon out from work and will most likely have the DT find in favour of them, at only a pittance of a cost to the buyer.

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  Reply # 726423 3-Dec-2012 19:58 Send private message

"Dear buyer, you claim that the fault you describe is long standing and request a refund, unfortunately I dispute this and do not believe that I am liable in any way for the described fault and do not intend to refund you.

The appropriate place to resolve such a dispute is the Disputes Tribunal. You may visit your local court to file a claim, you have my address for service which you need for the paperwork, and I will be pleased to attend at any such hearing and abide by the decision of that hearing.

Yours Sincerely,
Seller"


That's all you need to say, simple, concise, and it's giving a clear path for the seller to follow.




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Reply # 726424 3-Dec-2012 20:04 Send private message

sleemanj: "Dear buyer, you claim that the fault you describe is long standing and request a refund, unfortunately I dispute this and do not believe that I am liable in any way for the described fault and do not intend to refund you.

The appropriate place to resolve such a dispute is the Disputes Tribunal. You may visit your local court to file a claim, you have my address for service which you need for the paperwork, and I will be pleased to attend at any such hearing and abide by the decision of that hearing.

Yours Sincerely,
Seller"


That's all you need to say, simple, concise, and it's giving a clear path for the seller to follow.

This is the polite version of what I said and should probably be set as the answer.




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  Reply # 726439 3-Dec-2012 20:33 Send private message

I'm probably going to just be an echo of what others say but this is my opinion:

Second hand goods:
You are taking a risk no matter what you buy.

TradeMe Account not belonging to OP:
Well - This isn't even relevant in this discussion

Inspection:
This is the main point - The buyer inspected.

Conclusion:
The buyer purchased a second hand computer for graphics use. The buyer should have tested it in a way that the desired use could be checked. If there's a dispute, the buyer should take the computer to an Apple Authorized Technician for inspection. The auction says fully functional - It doesn't have any reference to condition.

TradeMe is massively "buyer beware". She inspected. She accepted. She must deal with the costs if she wishes to complain unless a claim has been made that is false, but I can't see any in that auction.





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  Reply # 726506 3-Dec-2012 22:10 Send private message

An interesting range of views here.

I personally believe that in any case where the seller has acted in good faith and has not misrepresented the goods then the burden of risk lies with the buyer. I say that on the basis that it is generally accepted that there is an element of risk associated with buying second hand goods from a private seller.

Unfortunately a Disputes Tribunal hearing could go either way because these things tend to end up with a "he said, she said" dialogue where the facts get twisted from either or both sides and the outcome depends on the particular interpretation of the adjudicator. Having said that I think it's pretty unlikely that it would end up in the Disputes Tribunal anyway because it's likely that the buyer realises that she is being petty and is just trying her luck.



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  Reply # 726515 3-Dec-2012 22:25

alasta: An interesting range of views here.

I personally believe that in any case where the seller has acted in good faith and has not misrepresented the goods then the burden of risk lies with the buyer. I say that on the basis that it is generally accepted that there is an element of risk associated with buying second hand goods from a private seller.

Unfortunately a Disputes Tribunal hearing could go either way because these things tend to end up with a "he said, she said" dialogue where the facts get twisted from either or both sides and the outcome depends on the particular interpretation of the adjudicator. Having said that I think it's pretty unlikely that it would end up in the Disputes Tribunal anyway because it's likely that the buyer realises that she is being petty and is just trying her luck.


Yes I had hoped that that would be the case, however I have just received an email from the buyer's husband, which makes various accusations of deceit and guilt, and demands a refund. Oh dear, looks like this is going to go to the Disputes Tribunal.

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