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  Reply # 762592 14-Feb-2013 19:34 Send private message

My there are some awfully black and white views on the world on display here.




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  Reply # 762605 14-Feb-2013 20:01 Send private message

No one has put forward a logical argument supporting why warning people of dangers is so bad. The reason for that is all to clear.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 762607 14-Feb-2013 20:04 Send private message

"Why are people not held to account for their own actions these days?"

Basically, because the world has moved from 'survival of the fittest' to 'PC'd to death to cater for the lowest common denominator'.

In fact, anyone who stands out from the crowd is now persecuted for being greedy, insensitve, uncaring..... there is evidence of it in this particular forum topic.




Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

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  Reply # 762609 14-Feb-2013 20:07 Send private message

(truncated) SaltyNZ: You know what? We should just have a law that says 'it's illegal to be an idiot.' The definition of idiot would be anyone who does something that makes a jury blink and wonder to themselves how anyone could be so stupid.


Nope, that wouldn't work either.

You have assumed that the jury would not contain idiots..... Tongue Out




Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

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  Reply # 762611 14-Feb-2013 20:11 Send private message

MikeSkyrme:
(truncated) SaltyNZ: You know what? We should just have a law that says 'it's illegal to be an idiot.' The definition of idiot would be anyone who does something that makes a jury blink and wonder to themselves how anyone could be so stupid.


Nope, that wouldn't work either.

You have assumed that the jury would not contain idiots..... Tongue Out


I was going to say 'fine, we'll just make it a majority vote' but then I thought, DAMNIT. He's RIGHT.




iPad Air + iPhone 5S + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

gzt

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  Reply # 762624 14-Feb-2013 20:32 Send private message

qwerty7:
gzt: Let's face it. The only reason Coca-Cola does not want a warning on their product is because they know it will cause some of their customers to think twice about using it.

There is no reason at all they should have a warning on their product in my opinion. Maybe a little small print on the back just for cover your a** bs but.. At the end of the day she died because she had poor diet.

gzt: I think you will find something that size is what is being proposed. At the end of the day the issue is wider than the tragic death of one person.

Nathan: We done need more regulation, that's just more officials, more bureaucrats that you and I pay for with our taxes, and we can't afford it

I would have to class that as an extreme over-reaction. Energy drinks already carry a warning. There is no additional regulation required here. This is just one item to be considered by a trans-tasman regulatory body which is working well.

In the meantime, you might ask yourself what result the self regulation of water tightness building standards implementation had in NZ, or what result self regulation of the derivatives market had in the US.

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  Reply # 762660 14-Feb-2013 21:43 Send private message

NZtechfreak:
JimmyH: She was an adult. It should have been obvious to her and her family that something was wrong, and SHE should have done something about it. Ultimately, she was the author of her own demise, no one else was.


Sorry, I think this assumes rather too much - unless of course you personally knew her and her circumstances?

I think, if we are going to make assumptions, it is safer to assume that she was suffering some deep psychological malaise, if not frank mental illness. This seems fairly self-evident, or at least it does to me as a doctor (who also has an additional 13 years experience working in mental health above and beyond my medical work and training). Her own capacity to 'do something about it' may have been greatly diminished.

I think anyone making statements with the certainty you are is being overly quick to toss this into the 'crisis of personal responsibility' basket, unless you have some deep first hand knowledge of the case (my own assumption, freely admitted, is that you do not).

In some cases I think the desire to quickly attribute all of this to deceased betrays a personal bias in belief structure toward the so-called 'crisis of personal responsibility', which is often used as a way of dismissing things out of hand - a kind of wilful ignorance that absolves anyone of having to do or think anything about problems in society, and an active obstruction to understanding the root causes for many of societies ills which do not reside solely with individuals.


You are correct, I didn't know her personally. However, I don't buy your argument. It's not about "absolving myself from personal responsibility for understanding root causes of societies ills" or any such sociological psychobabble. It's a very clear case of a disturbed woman who sadly and tragically caused her own demise.

From the description of what she went through in her last six months it should have been obvious to her that something was wrong. If you are correct and there was something psychologically wrong with her and she couldn't recognise it, then it should have been obvious to her husband, friends and family that there was something wrong. I would like to think that if I started behaving like that and couldn't see the problem that my friends and family would take action. If she was my wife/sister/daughter/friend I certainly would! If necessary, and they were a family member, I might even take steps to have them committed. But I fail to see how "society" let her down - indeed, outside her friends and family, I don't see how anyone in wider "society" could even reasonably have been expected to know what was going on.

In any event, if she was in that head-space, then putting labels about safe caffeine consumption on the bottles wouldn't have mattered a jot.

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  Reply # 762676 14-Feb-2013 22:18 Send private message

JimmyH: You are correct, I didn't know her personally. However, I don't buy your argument. It's not about "absolving myself from personal responsibility for understanding root causes of societies ills" or any such sociological psychobabble. It's a very clear case of a disturbed woman who sadly and tragically caused her own demise.


Reading comprehension 101: I never said you were doing that, only that some do. Good job on finding a way to dismiss out of hand the point I was making there though, the point being about people dismissing things out of hand. Labelling something as 'psychobabble' is almost as cheap a way of not really engaging in a discussion as invoking "PC".

JimmyH: From the description of what she went through in her last six months it should have been obvious to her that something was wrong. If you are correct and there was something psychologically wrong with her and she couldn't recognise it, then it should have been obvious to her husband, friends and family that there was something wrong. I would like to think that if I started behaving like that and couldn't see the problem that my friends and family would take action. If she was my wife/sister/daughter/friend I certainly would! If necessary, and they were a family member, I might even take steps to have them committed. But I fail to see how "society" let her down - indeed, outside her friends and family, I don't see how anyone in wider "society" could even reasonably have been expected to know what was going on.


Sorry, what is your knowledge/experience of the mental health system and having someone committed? I'm afraid it is actually exceedingly difficult in cases like this where there is no imminent threat to personal safety. 

In any case, your paragraph there validates my point that your unequivocal assertion that she is entirely responsible for her death did indeed assume too much, you are basically saying here that those around her may indeed have a degree of culpability. I don't know her situation, and perhaps those close to her do have to answer to their own consciences about their actions or inactions. The point is: we don't know do we?

JimmyH: In any event, if she was in that head-space, then putting labels about safe caffeine consumption on the bottles wouldn't have mattered a jot.


No one has contended it would have, that doesn't mean said labels are a bad idea.




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  Reply # 762689 14-Feb-2013 23:15 Send private message

BlueShift: Another day another coroner's recommendation: all cyclists should be required to wear hi-viz gear.


This is actually a GOOD recommendation. Cyclists SHOULD be required to be visible. Forget the person who dies, the impact on their family etc, imagine LIVING with having killed a cyclist. I like Cyclists, but I think far too many aren't visible enough, have a truly arrogant attitude (Being right won't stop you being dead if you get hit by a car). It STAGGERS me the number of cyclists I see without helmets. I saw a parent with TWO under 5 year old kids, cycling along WITH THEIR HELMETS ON THEIR HANDLEBARS! My God. I was || this close to stopping and giving the parent a piece of my mind.

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  Reply # 762693 14-Feb-2013 23:22 Send private message

networkn:
BlueShift: Another day another coroner's recommendation: all cyclists should be required to wear hi-viz gear.


This is actually a GOOD recommendation. Cyclists SHOULD be required to be visible. Forget the person who dies, the impact on their family etc, imagine LIVING with having killed a cyclist. I like Cyclists, but I think far too many aren't visible enough, have a truly arrogant attitude (Being right won't stop you being dead if you get hit by a car). It STAGGERS me the number of cyclists I see without helmets. I saw a parent with TWO under 5 year old kids, cycling along WITH THEIR HELMETS ON THEIR HANDLEBARS! My God. I was || this close to stopping and giving the parent a piece of my mind.


I think all cars that aren't brightly coloured should be banned.  Cars parked on the side of the road should have to have their park lights on and if someone wants to cross the road they should have to wear blinking lights.

Heaven forbid drivers should pay attention to what is on the road

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  Reply # 762696 14-Feb-2013 23:44 Send private message

networkn:
BlueShift: Another day another coroner's recommendation: all cyclists should be required to wear hi-viz gear.


This is actually a GOOD recommendation. Cyclists SHOULD be required to be visible. Forget the person who dies, the impact on their family etc, imagine LIVING with having killed a cyclist. I like Cyclists, but I think far too many aren't visible enough, have a truly arrogant attitude (Being right won't stop you being dead if you get hit by a car). It STAGGERS me the number of cyclists I see without helmets. I saw a parent with TWO under 5 year old kids, cycling along WITH THEIR HELMETS ON THEIR HANDLEBARS! My God. I was || this close to stopping and giving the parent a piece of my mind.


Agree completely.

As an occasional cycling commuter in Auckland I make sure I'm extremely visible, it's no guarantee of my safety by any means, but I do what I can to protect myself from others stupidity. Unfortunately lots of cyclists are too stupid to do the same, so it should be made law. It's like warrant of fitness testing; ensuring a basic standard of safety is imposed on people using the roads because people can't be relied on to do it themselves.

Sadly I could see it being as well enforced as the present law regarding cycle helmets, which you saw parents flagrantly disregarding with their children (a sight I am also too well accustomed to anytime I go to Mission Bay or the surrounding area).




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  Reply # 762697 14-Feb-2013 23:50

blackjack17:Heaven forbid drivers should pay attention to what is on the road


For some perverse reason that escapes me some cyclists seem to go out of their way to adopt a ninja look with black leggings and black or dark blue tops. When you've spotted all the bright and fluoro ones look again for Mr Invisible.

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  Reply # 762745 15-Feb-2013 08:37 Send private message

Bung:
blackjack17:Heaven forbid drivers should pay attention to what is on the road


For some perverse reason that escapes me some cyclists seem to go out of their way to adopt a ninja look with black leggings and black or dark blue tops. When you've spotted all the bright and fluoro ones look again for Mr Invisible.


I avoided a ninja cyclist last night - 10:30, State Highway 1, cyclist wearing dark clothes, a black backpack, no rear lights on the bike, riding in the cycle lane over a narrow bridge (right past the Highway Patrol HQ). Can't these people commit suicide without unwilling helpers?

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  Reply # 762792 15-Feb-2013 09:21 Send private message

BlueShift:
Bung:
blackjack17:Heaven forbid drivers should pay attention to what is on the road


For some perverse reason that escapes me some cyclists seem to go out of their way to adopt a ninja look with black leggings and black or dark blue tops. When you've spotted all the bright and fluoro ones look again for Mr Invisible.


I avoided a ninja cyclist last night - 10:30, State Highway 1, cyclist wearing dark clothes, a black backpack, no rear lights on the bike, riding in the cycle lane over a narrow bridge (right past the Highway Patrol HQ). Can't these people commit suicide without unwilling helpers?


Thanks for providing me a morning chuckle.

I think as a cyclist I'm even more aggravated by cyclists like this, them and the weekend warriors who cycle 2-4 abreast on inner city roads, bloody idiots inspire ill-feeling in motorists towards cyclists and aren't helping the cycling cause.




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  Reply # 762810 15-Feb-2013 09:31 Send private message

NZtechfreak:
BlueShift:
Bung:
blackjack17:Heaven forbid drivers should pay attention to what is on the road


For some perverse reason that escapes me some cyclists seem to go out of their way to adopt a ninja look with black leggings and black or dark blue tops. When you've spotted all the bright and fluoro ones look again for Mr Invisible.


I avoided a ninja cyclist last night - 10:30, State Highway 1, cyclist wearing dark clothes, a black backpack, no rear lights on the bike, riding in the cycle lane over a narrow bridge (right past the Highway Patrol HQ). Can't these people commit suicide without unwilling helpers?


Thanks for providing me a morning chuckle.

I think as a cyclist I'm even more aggravated by cyclists like this, them and the weekend warriors who cycle 2-4 abreast on inner city roads, bloody idiots inspire ill-feeling in motorists towards cyclists and aren't helping the cycling cause.


I started cycling a little a couple of years ago, just around my area in RD Pukekohe, I always rode as far over as I could, wore high vis and had lights going day or night (although I never really rode at night)

I stopped riding my bike when a couple of cars travelled acorss to the wrong side of the road to try and take me out. 




I know a little more than nothing but not much...

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