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16 posts

Geek
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Topic # 138499 7-Jan-2014 11:53 Send private message

Hi 

What is the best online (in terms of least costs and good features) trading platform in your experience.

Thanks


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332 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 962418 7-Jan-2014 13:19 Send private message

There's a few around these days (Weedle being the latest advertising on TV), but realistically TradeMe still has the largest number of potential buyers by a wide margin even though it has become far too commercialised for it's own good.

19 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 962495 7-Jan-2014 15:16 Send private message

Trademe are really the only game in town.

They came along early with far more passion than E-Bay's limp minimal effort at a NZ presence and were first to build up that all-important critical mass of both buyers and sellers. E-Bay today is used by comparatively few in NZ.

Since then many contenders have tried and failed to build up their own following. Buyers are put off because they can't see any where near as much available to buy as they see on Trademe so they just go back to Trademe. Trademe is free for buyers so they have no incentive to support any opposition. Sellers can't make many sales because of this lack of buyers so they also have to return to Trademe. This is a self-perpetuating cycle that ensures Trademe are virtually unassailable.

The only way any would-be competitor has a chance is if they have some great idea and immensely deep pockets to provide some kind of compelling reason for BUYERS to buy on the new site to wrest some market share from Trademe
It amazes me that so many business people who have been successful in other areas just cannot see this. They think that putting their efforts solely on attracting SELLERS with low or no fees the rest will follow; but it just doesn't work that way. So their site inevitably goes down the gurgler.



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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 962519 7-Jan-2014 15:36 2 people support this post Send private message

are we talking of trading goods/services or a more traditional term like financial trading ?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 962546 7-Jan-2014 16:08 One person supports this post Send private message

rm79: Hi 

What is the best online (in terms of least costs and good features) trading platform in your experience.

Thanks



More information required. The answer to that kind of depends on what you want to trade (second hand goods, currencies, shares, recipies.....?)



16 posts

Geek
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  Reply # 963076 8-Jan-2014 10:11 Send private message

My bad should have explained my question in first instance - I am looking for best online share and commodity trading platform. 

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 963251 8-Jan-2014 13:41 Send private message

The only options really are ASB Securities and Direct Broking. All others are basically just Direct Broking in drag.

So really, pick your poison. The cost is about the same ($30 per trade) so doesn't make a difference who you're with. If you're an existing ASB customer, choose ASB Securities because the Know Your Customer obligations make the signup a pain in the rear with a broker you haven't worked with before, but ASB Securities can leverage the fact that ASB Bank knows you.



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Geek
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  Reply # 963306 8-Jan-2014 15:07 Send private message

Thanks Kyanar.

But $30 minimum seems to be pretty expensive for a single trade and short term trading. This means that a small investor/trader who wants to start with amount like $1000 needs at least 10% (probably more) gain before selling can be an option. 

Is there any way to reduce the $30 minimum fees on a single trade.

62 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 963367 8-Jan-2014 16:49 One person supports this post Send private message

Hi RM79,

I guess it depends on what type of instruments / securities and in what regions you plan to be "trading" in. It is in my opinion that the NZ Stockmarket is not particularly suited for short term trading due to the comparatively low liquidity and high brokerage fees.

ASB securities seems to be geared towards more for investors wishing to invest longer term in the NZX and perhaps the ASX as well. Using ASB Securities to trade in any other market (outside Australia / NZ) is not particularly cost effective (Buying and holding Stocks in say the US I believe is very expensive through them). Not sure if it's the same with Direct Broking.

I will state upfront that in my opinion in general terms, I'm somewhat unconvinced / reticent about short term securities trading as far as doing it as an individual punter goes (on the retail level) especially with minimal capital (say less than 100k)

If you still want to try you hand at short term Trading, you may be better focusing on much bigger markets such as the of the US and set yourself up with an US brokerage account that is geared towards active short term trading. I think there may even now be brokers that allow people to access several different markets across different regions for trading (but I don't think any of them are based in New Zealand).

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 963476 8-Jan-2014 19:33 4 people support this post Send private message

Unless you have substantial resource, both financial and personal time (for information, terminals, analysis), AND a good capital base to withstand losing streaks, AND a lot of expertise - then short-term trading is a good way to lose your shirt. Particularly if you go for margin trading (which is also the main way to make serious profits).

You will always be at a disadvantage compared to the pros, who have lots of research, follow the market minute-by-minute and can react instantly to breaking news - and they will eat you alive. The fact that you are talking about $1,000 trades and worried about $30 minimum brokerage costs suggests to me that you don't remotely have the resource to be in that game. [Hint: less than $150K in capital, an internet connection and a CNBC feed aren't even close to sufficient to successfully participate as a short-term trader]

If you did have the resource you would be making bigger trades than $1,000, wouldn't care about $30 trade minimums. If you had the expertise you wouldn't be asking GZers for advice on trading platforms, you would already know this in detail.

For the small investor who isn't an expert, doesn't have time and technology to follow the market hour-by-hour, a medium- to long-term buy-and-hold strategy is the only sensible one.

I'm not trying to get at you. I'm just hoping that you understand what is needed to be successful in what you appear to be contemplating.



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Geek
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  Reply # 965957 13-Jan-2014 10:31 Send private message

I guess i should have used the word "investing" somewhere in my question to suggestI am looking to invest in NZ share market and looking for platform. But then in my experience I always seen (which could be limited) people using trading platforms as the vehicle for  investing (long or short term) in equity because most of big trading platforms are brokers and holders of shares in demat format as well. Hence I said "trading". Have not seen an equity share purchase platform which is not for trading but only for long term investing.

I got what you mean to say but I do not think so I asked that I am looking to active trading using a $1000. And If I want to start cautiously with just $1000 for my first few investments in NZ share market then why not. It is my hard earned money and I guess I should look for best vehicle with minimum cost to help me.  if you do not think its right than or $1000 is too low, well its your opinion, thanks.

And even I was looking for trading then cost is really important as I guess you are aware of the fact of compounding costs. 


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 966897 14-Jan-2014 15:39 Send private message

rm79: I guess i should have used the word "investing" somewhere in my question to suggestI am looking to invest in NZ share market and looking for platform. But then in my experience I always seen (which could be limited) people using trading platforms as the vehicle for  investing (long or short term) in equity because most of big trading platforms are brokers and holders of shares in demat format as well. Hence I said "trading". Have not seen an equity share purchase platform which is not for trading but only for long term investing.

I got what you mean to say but I do not think so I asked that I am looking to active trading using a $1000. And If I want to start cautiously with just $1000 for my first few investments in NZ share market then why not. It is my hard earned money and I guess I should look for best vehicle with minimum cost to help me.  if you do not think its right than or $1000 is too low, well its your opinion, thanks.

And even I was looking for trading then cost is really important as I guess you are aware of the fact of compounding costs. 



He did not say $1000 was too low for investments, he was saying that for short term trading (as opposed to investments) $1000 is too low.  You will lose a lot of it to fees, and the NZ market is too small to really make anything off minor gains in SP without a significant initial investment (when a share trades at $1.00 and moves up to $1.10, investing $1000 only gains you $100, 66% of which you'll lose to the brokerage.  By contrast invest $5000, and it gains you $500, net $440 after brokerage.  An OK gain).  For $1000 you are better off picking nice growth shares, dropping a largeish amount into them, and reaping long term SP gains and dividends.  Actively trading with only $1000 is basically pointless.  Side note, $30 is the minimum cost.  It doesn't get any better.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 966995 14-Jan-2014 17:34 Send private message

Exactly.

Your first post was (I thought) relatively clear that you wanted to be a DIY share/commodity trader (which is very, very different to being an investor)

If you only have small amounts to invest, then you might want to look at a managed fund. if you are doing long-term investing on your own account, you will have trouble achieving proper diversification. Plus you have all the admin (trading, record keeping, tax etc) which probably isn't worth it for small amounts. Realistically, you need to be thinking of a portfolio of $40-50,000 before it's logical to do it on your own.

Think about a mainstream good market index fund. They will take care of the paperwork and diversification for you, can access much lower wholesale brokerage rates when trading, and the annual fees are comparatively low. Probably significantly lower than if you are trading $1000 amounts on a $30 brokerage minimum. If you go Kiwisaver, you also get tax credits - which on small investments makes the numbers look good - but you lose your money until age 65.

Alternatively, if you are doing it as a bit of a hobby you just have to accept that, as Kyanar says, $30 is as good as it gets. Accept the high-ish brokerage as a cost of the hobby (it's only $150 if you are doing 5 trades a year) and go for it.

3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 969723 19-Jan-2014 19:04 Send private message

hi RM79. For FOREX or CFDs, most of the internet based providers like CMC or IG now pretty much the same rate.  or you can try a full service futures/Forex broker, which will usually provide you with a trading platform for free or at a small cost. Two of the locally based brokers are BBY and OMF. When choosing a broker, I'd rather prefer a financially well-backed over the cheapest one. you don't want they to go broke afterall. As for platform features, it is very personal and just choose whatever suits your trading style.

If you are only buying NZ or Aussie shares for longer term holding, ASB securites's $30 for order under $30k is indeed rather good. If you are thinking about daytrading with them, that is for seasoned professional only. It appears to me that you are just starting out. No offence, just trading the market is not easy and don't want you to throw away your hard-earned cash.

We NZers as a group are one of the most ignorant about financial markets/knowledge in general. that's why we have someone asking "Online Trading Platform" and have replies discussing TradeMe VS eBay. hope my post will help.

3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 969731 19-Jan-2014 19:32 Send private message

rm79: I guess i should have used the word "investing" somewhere in my question to suggestI am looking to invest in NZ share market and looking for platform. But then in my experience I always seen (which could be limited) people using trading platforms as the vehicle for  investing (long or short term) in equity because most of big trading platforms are brokers and holders of shares in demat format as well. Hence I said "trading". Have not seen an equity share purchase platform which is not for trading but only for long term investing.

I got what you mean to say but I do not think so I asked that I am looking to active trading using a $1000. And If I want to start cautiously with just $1000 for my first few investments in NZ share market then why not. It is my hard earned money and I guess I should look for best vehicle with minimum cost to help me.  if you do not think its right than or $1000 is too low, well its your opinion, thanks.

And even I was looking for trading then cost is really important as I guess you are aware of the fact of compounding costs. 



are you going have more money available in the future to invest? say $1000 every month/2months? if $1000 is all you have available to invest once and for all, you will make bugger all after all the fees, that's if you've chosen a winner in the first place. if that is the case, I suggest to use the $1k to "invest in yourself", like buying some good book about investing or subscribing to a investment newsletter. Or use the money to pay down your mortgage/debt if there's any.

The same with acting trading, your $1000 will not go very far in todays volatile market. One thing that you could do is to use the micro/mini lot with a online provider to practice. that way you won't lose much until you've  learned your craft. Still, you need to educate yourself about the market.

cheers

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