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278 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 138655 12-Jan-2014 15:18 Send private message

Hi,

I saw a Police email saying:

Auckland City District Police are looking for a couple of distinctive looking
vehicles believed to be responsible for a number of serious offences in the
wider Auckland region.

One is a black X5 BMW Stationwagon 2004 Reg No DEP 915, the other is a black
AUDI 1.8 Stationwagon 2004 Reg No CFE 878.



I'm wondering how were they able to steal them, you can't simply hotwire these cars.
The only explanation would be if they somehow got the keys and then just took off with the cars.

Thoughts?

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285 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35


  Reply # 965509 12-Jan-2014 15:33 Send private message

  • Take car for test drive, record VIN, have keys "cut" (ordered), steal car
  • Lookup Rego, record VIN, have keys "cut" (ordered), steal car
  • Take car for test drive, don't return
  • Hijack car at lights / parked
  • Break into house, steal keys
  • Rent, loan, test drive, HP or otherwise obtain vehicle by legitimate means then fail to return it.
  • Purchase using fake credit details, forged documents, stolen cheques etc....





784 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Subscriber

  Reply # 965515 12-Jan-2014 15:37 Send private message

There are STACKS of ways to get the keys. Here's a few common ones.

- Take the car that was left running.
- Steal a handbag from somewhere like a supermarket, go round the car park with the remote and take the car that unlocks.
- Burgle a house, load the stuff in the car, take both.
- Have a minor "accident", while the owner is occupied, one person steals their car, while they're panicking, the other person drives off.

2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


  Reply # 965519 12-Jan-2014 15:40 Send private message

tcpdump: Hi,

I saw a Police email saying:

Auckland City District Police are looking for a couple of distinctive looking
vehicles believed to be responsible for a number of serious offences in the
wider Auckland region.

One is a black X5 BMW Stationwagon 2004 Reg No DEP 915, the other is a black
AUDI 1.8 Stationwagon 2004 Reg No CFE 878.



I'm wondering how were they able to steal them, you can't simply hotwire these cars.
The only explanation would be if they somehow got the keys and then just took off with the cars.

Thoughts?


Relatively easy. Reprogram the car via its OBD port
https://autos.aol.com/article/keyless-bmw-theft/





285 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35


  Reply # 965520 12-Jan-2014 15:46 Send private message

"Stolen" (i.e. theft) is a pretty general terms anyway, is basically covers;
  1. Taking/retaining with intent to deprive the owner
  2. Obtaining by deception
  3. Modifying / damaging in anyway so it can't be restored to its original condition





2730 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 965522 12-Jan-2014 15:48 Send private message

I've always wondered how easy it is to circumvent an electronic immobiliser. When the system detects the presence of the key it must close a circuit somewhere, so surely you could just short out that circuit? I guess the trick is finding the correct wires to short among a massive wiring loom.

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Uber Geek
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Inactive user


  Reply # 965529 12-Jan-2014 15:56 Send private message

alasta: I've always wondered how easy it is to circumvent an electronic immobiliser. When the system detects the presence of the key it must close a circuit somewhere, so surely you could just short out that circuit? I guess the trick is finding the correct wires to short among a massive wiring loom.


People who work at the motor car companies know all of this information and they are able to hotwire a car within seconds.

In South Africa there are a couple of large motor car industries, BMW, Toyota, VW/Audi, Mercedes Benz.

Guess which model cars are stolen the most.





708 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 965531 12-Jan-2014 16:05 Send private message

alasta: I've always wondered how easy it is to circumvent an electronic immobiliser. When the system detects the presence of the key it must close a circuit somewhere, so surely you could just short out that circuit? I guess the trick is finding the correct wires to short among a massive wiring loom.


Car electronics are a bit more complex than that. Not a lot of analogue used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

784 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Subscriber

  Reply # 965532 12-Jan-2014 16:06 Send private message

alasta: I've always wondered how easy it is to circumvent an electronic immobiliser. When the system detects the presence of the key it must close a circuit somewhere, so surely you could just short out that circuit? I guess the trick is finding the correct wires to short among a massive wiring loom.

It'd be a bit harder than it was now you have computer controlled fuel and spark control, though Diesel might be a lot easier. 

For alarms with immobilisers, thieves used to disable the alarm (usually by tearing it out from under the dash), then break the ignition and listen. It's obvious to the trained ear, which part of the system isn't working and there's only three things to worry about, fuel pump, spark, and starter motor. Once you know, fix it.

244 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 38


  Reply # 965537 12-Jan-2014 16:13 Send private message

yeah for newer cars with factory immobilisers and an electronic key - you do pretty much need the keys - so this is enough to deter/stop most average scumbags

the days of a slide hammer and screw driver are numbered thankfully...

334 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 55


  Reply # 965541 12-Jan-2014 16:17 Send private message

tcpdump: Hi,

I saw a Police email saying:

Auckland City District Police are looking for a couple of distinctive looking
vehicles believed to be responsible for a number of serious offences in the
wider Auckland region.

One is a black X5 BMW Stationwagon 2004 Reg No DEP 915, the other is a black
AUDI 1.8 Stationwagon 2004 Reg No CFE 878.



I'm wondering how were they able to steal them, you can't simply hotwire these cars.
The only explanation would be if they somehow got the keys and then just took off with the cars.

Thoughts?


In England, a well established MO is to turn up at a big supermarket with two folks in a car. Cruise the carpark until you spot a target vehicle with an empty space nearby. Reverse into the empty space and sit there waiting. When somebody returns to the car, evaluate their suitability as a victim. You really want a woman on her own with a lot of shopping to put in the boot. If it looks good, the passenger gets out of the car and walks past the target vehicle. Whack the driver over the head with a sock full of pool balls, pick up the key and drive off.

In Brussels, the two guys in the car drive around the town centre until they find that they are stopped at the front of the queue at traffic lights with a suitable target vehicle behind (lone driver - female). This time, the passenger will be seated behind the driver and he will have a gun. He gets out of the car and points the gun at the driver of the target vehicle. Tells her to get out of the car and hand over the keys and her handbag - for the mobe. The two cars then drive off jumping the red lights. (The handbag will exit the window a couple of minutes later.)

2391 posts

Uber Geek
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Inactive user


  Reply # 965543 12-Jan-2014 16:19 Send private message

driller2000: yeah for newer cars with factory immobilisers and an electronic key - you do pretty much need the keys - so this is enough to deter/stop most average scumbags

the days of a slide hammer and screw driver are numbered thankfully...


The crims will always be one step ahead unfortunately

2391 posts

Uber Geek
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Inactive user


  Reply # 965545 12-Jan-2014 16:22 Send private message

jpoc:

In England, a well established MO is to turn up at a big supermarket with two folks in a car. Cruise the carpark until you spot a target vehicle with an empty space nearby. Reverse into the empty space and sit there waiting. When somebody returns to the car, evaluate their suitability as a victim. You really want a woman on her own with a lot of shopping to put in the boot. If it looks good, the passenger gets out of the car and walks past the target vehicle. Whack the driver over the head with a sock full of pool balls, pick up the key and drive off.

In Brussels, the two guys in the car drive around the town centre until they find that they are stopped at the front of the queue at traffic lights with a suitable target vehicle behind (lone driver - female). This time, the passenger will be seated behind the driver and he will have a gun. He gets out of the car and points the gun at the driver of the target vehicle. Tells her to get out of the car and hand over the keys and her handbag - for the mobe. The two cars then drive off jumping the red lights. (The handbag will exit the window a couple of minutes later.)


In South Africa they also wait in the car parks for the car they want. Then they get somebody to follow the car owners inside the mall, reporting back via mobile phone on the car owners whereabouts.

This gives them plenty of time to get the car going.

But this was the old way of doing things. Now they just wait for the car at the traffic lights, shoot the driver, hop in and drive off.


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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 965555 12-Jan-2014 16:38 5 people support this post Send private message

And folks this is why I refuse to visit SA




2534 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 965557 12-Jan-2014 16:41 Send private message

Klipspringer: In South Africa there are a couple of large motor car industries, BMW, Toyota, VW/Audi, Mercedes Benz.

Guess which model cars are stolen the most.


BMW, Toyota, VW/Audi, Mercedes Benz, because there's more of them than other imported cars.

2391 posts

Uber Geek
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Inactive user


  Reply # 965566 12-Jan-2014 17:04 Send private message

RunningMan:
Klipspringer: In South Africa there are a couple of large motor car industries, BMW, Toyota, VW/Audi, Mercedes Benz.

Guess which model cars are stolen the most.


BMW, Toyota, VW/Audi, Mercedes Benz, because there's more of them than other imported cars.


Not quiet. Hyundai is probably the most popular.

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