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gjm

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  Reply # 965997 13-Jan-2014 11:06 2 people support this post Send private message

Re the cycling accident in Parnell, I just think it is sad that someone's father and husband will no longer be with them. While it does sound like he ran a red light and it was his fault, death is a very high price to pay. Reading comments on other websites that infer that he got what he deserved make me wonder what is happening to our society.




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  Reply # 965998 13-Jan-2014 11:07 Send private message

Bee: Cyclists change from being "motorists" to "Pedestrians" whenever it suits them. We've all known this for years but finally have some "facts" to base this on! Someone should tell the NZ Police that there is a "new" revenue stream for them!


Yeaa, another opportunity to jump on the 'Police Revenue Stream" bandwagon... 

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  Reply # 965999 13-Jan-2014 11:08 Send private message

Mark:
KiwiNZ: I heard that cyclists are often motorists and pedestrians to, maybe wrong though but I kinda doubt it.


no .. when on a pedal bike you are a cyclist, when you are walking on your legs you are a pedestrian, when you are driving a car your a motorist ... you can't be all of them at once (unless you are in the circus and have a really weird act going on).



Good grief. Squares can be stepped out of.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 966005 13-Jan-2014 11:12 Send private message

Mark:
KiwiNZ: I heard that cyclists are often motorists and pedestrians to, maybe wrong though but I kinda doubt it.


no .. when on a pedal bike you are a cyclist, when you are walking on your legs you are a pedestrian, when you are driving a car your a motorist ... you can't be all of them at once (unless you are in the circus and have a really weird act going on).



I was referring to the "they don't pay for the roads BS" and the "they don't know the rules BS" 




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

gzt

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  Reply # 966008 13-Jan-2014 11:17 Send private message

andrewNZ: I have mixed views on all of this. I rode a bike as my only form of transport for 10 years (by choice) and I see this car v. cycle battle (as it's become) from both sides.

Yeah it's interesting looking at how this has evolved. My take on it, 10-15 years ago this was not really an issue. Traffic in general has increased markedly. Weekend semi-serious recreational group cycling has taken off in a big way. In contrast I suspect commuting cycling has remained relatively static because the danger factor from increased traffic has increased discouragement, but it is changing a bit with more genuine cycle routes being opened.

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  Reply # 966012 13-Jan-2014 11:21 Send private message

From the Auckland Transport figures it seems that cyclists are 30 times more likely than average to run red lights. The average figure is clearly elevated by the cyclists themselves so it seems likely that a cyclist is at least 50 times more likely to run a red light than another road user.

That is a pretty dreadful figure.

For a long time, we had a lower drink drive limit for young inexperienced motorists on the basis that they were more likely to be involved in crashes when drinking. More recently, we dropped the limit for young drivers to zero.

If cyclists really are 50 times more likely than other road users to run red lights then we should consider changes to legislation or enforcement practices regarding cyclists and traffic lights.

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  Reply # 966013 13-Jan-2014 11:22 Send private message

There needs to be more cycle lanes pun in, I feel a good way this could be achieved is turning the grass berms in the streets into cycle lanes.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 966028 13-Jan-2014 11:28 2 people support this post Send private message

gjm: Re the cycling accident in Parnell, I just think it is sad that someone's father and husband will no longer be with them. While it does sound like he ran a red light and it was his fault, death is a very high price to pay. Reading comments on other websites that infer that he got what he deserved make me wonder what is happening to our society.


I am not going to suggest that he got what he deserved but but I have far more sympathy for the truck driver. He seems to have been blameless and yet he now has to live with the fact that a man died underneath the wheels of his truck.

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  Reply # 966029 13-Jan-2014 11:29 Send private message

KiwiNZ: There needs to be more cycle lanes pun in, I feel a good way this could be achieved is turning the grass berms in the streets into cycle lanes.


How would that stop cyclists from running red lights?

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  Reply # 966031 13-Jan-2014 11:30 Send private message

Generalizing again, but it makes sense that a lot of cyclists could be seen as arrogant, when you consider that timid/unsure/meek people wouldn't ever consider cycling on busy NZ roads to start with.

And it just may be that running red lights is safer for cyclists. Which then comes back to road design.



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  Reply # 966032 13-Jan-2014 11:31 Send private message

KiwiNZ:
Mark:
KiwiNZ: I heard that cyclists are often motorists and pedestrians to, maybe wrong though but I kinda doubt it.


no .. when on a pedal bike you are a cyclist, when you are walking on your legs you are a pedestrian, when you are driving a car your a motorist ... you can't be all of them at once (unless you are in the circus and have a really weird act going on).



I was referring to the "they don't pay for the roads BS" and the "they don't know the rules BS" 


OK then ... a 14 year old cyclist on the road ... where have they paid ?  And what compulsory training have they had ?




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  Reply # 966033 13-Jan-2014 11:31 Send private message

jpoc:
KiwiNZ: There needs to be more cycle lanes pun in, I feel a good way this could be achieved is turning the grass berms in the streets into cycle lanes.


How would that stop cyclists from running red lights?


They could in many cases avoid the lights especially left turns.

But I was more thinking about making it safer in general




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 966034 13-Jan-2014 11:31 Send private message

jpoc: From the Auckland Transport figures it seems that cyclists are 30 times more likely than average to run red lights. The average figure is clearly elevated by the cyclists themselves so it seems likely that a cyclist is at least 50 times more likely to run a red light than another road user.

That is a pretty dreadful figure.

For a long time, we had a lower drink drive limit for young inexperienced motorists on the basis that they were more likely to be involved in crashes when drinking. More recently, we dropped the limit for young drivers to zero.

If cyclists really are 50 times more likely than other road users to run red lights then we should consider changes to legislation or enforcement practices regarding cyclists and traffic lights.


that would make sense if all accidents happened due to people on bikes running red lights, unfortunately figures would show they aren't so whilst it seems the right thing to do it will achieve little.

I think a campaign focusing on red light running which includes ball that use reoads including pedestrians it may make some feel a bit guilty about what they do. 




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  Reply # 966046 13-Jan-2014 11:35 One person supports this post Send private message

Mark:
KiwiNZ:
Mark:
KiwiNZ: I heard that cyclists are often motorists and pedestrians to, maybe wrong though but I kinda doubt it.


no .. when on a pedal bike you are a cyclist, when you are walking on your legs you are a pedestrian, when you are driving a car your a motorist ... you can't be all of them at once (unless you are in the circus and have a really weird act going on).



I was referring to the "they don't pay for the roads BS" and the "they don't know the rules BS" 


OK then ... a 14 year old cyclist on the road ... where have they paid ?  And what compulsory training have they had ?


Oh for goodness sake

OK no cyclist ever should be allowed on the roads ever  is that better?

If we are going to pedantic, Anyone under 18 should not use toilets, taps, footpaths, hospitals, libraries, watch Freeview, ummm be protected by the Police Army etc etc etc as they are not paying

Oh and as an aside, my kids all studied the road code and was instructed by us on how to ride and use their bikes. And ummm I think I maybe wrong but we paid taxes to cover them 




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

gzt

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  Reply # 966048 13-Jan-2014 11:44 Send private message

jpoc: From the Auckland Transport figures it seems that cyclists are 30 times more likely than average to run red lights. The average figure is clearly elevated by the cyclists themselves so it seems likely that a cyclist is at least 50 times more likely to run a red light than another road user.

That is a pretty dreadful figure.

For a long time, we had a lower drink drive limit for young inexperienced motorists on the basis that they were more likely to be involved in crashes when drinking. More recently, we dropped the limit for young drivers to zero.

If cyclists really are 50 times more likely than other road users to run red lights then we should consider changes to legislation or enforcement practices regarding cyclists and traffic lights.

Those figures are likely to be slightly misleading. I'm guessing 'running' is really the wrong descriptor to get a good picture of what is going on with cycles. A car/truck/motorcycle running a red light is almost always running ie; going through a red at high speed in an attempt (futile by definition) to cross the intersection prior to the light turning red. A cyclist is more likely to be crossing at walking pace with pedestrians. Still a risky behavior but different in potential outcomes.

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