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247 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 20


  Reply # 966549 14-Jan-2014 07:58 3 people support this post Send private message

Mark: Just to through a bit more petrol on the topic .. albeit slightly off topic from the original gripe about cyclists choosing which laws to follow .. ACC figures for cyclists are out, last year a shade over $35.7million worth of claims were are for cycling related injuries ... amount of cyclist related ACC income ... $0 ... wonderfully fair system :-(

You can wander over to the Dominion Post for a read.

So either ACC needs to find a way to fairly get cyclists contributing, or ACC needs to be scrapped and replaced with personal insurance/income protection .. or something else ?




Now go back and read that article again

Of the 35million only 11million were road cyclists and motor vehicle related.  The rest being mountain bikes and recreational.

While 11 million is still a lot of money, in an accident between a car and bike the stats say that cyclists are at fault only 23% of the time which equates to about 2.5 million. Most recreational activities ACC costs are covered out of general taxes

If you did want to recover some of the ACC money from bikes a registration wouldn't work, as mountain bikes and tricycles would escape, so how about a fixed fee on purchase?

But to make it fair other sports should pay too.  we could add a fee to rugby balls to cover the 56 million Acc paid out.

A fee on
soccer balls to cover the 23 million,
Netballs to cover 19 million
Skies and snowboards 18 million
Rugby league balls to cover 14 million
Dogs 2.4 million
Trampolines 2 million

After all unless the money is recovered directly from each activity ACC become useless right?


332 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 61
Inactive user


  Reply # 966601 14-Jan-2014 09:33 Send private message

JimmyH:
Not hard. Cop sitting at the side of road with a radar gun, looking for speedsters etc as per usual. Cycle without a plate goes past. Pursue, stop, healthy fine. If the penalty is sufficient, most people will comply.


There was an article in yesterday's NZ Herald still on about cycle safety and re-light runners, and according to that police have given out some tickets to cyclists for not wearing helmets or for speeding.

188 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12


  Reply # 966635 14-Jan-2014 10:13 Send private message

stevenz: Makes them pay their part of the ACC bill perhaps?


They already do

How we're funded: The five ACC accounts

Watchmaker Wizard
2378 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 52

Subscriber

  Reply # 966697 14-Jan-2014 11:25 Send private message

jfanning:
stevenz: Makes them pay their part of the ACC bill perhaps?


They already do

How we're funded: The five ACC accounts


So why is there ACC on vehicle licensing then since it's covered elsewhere?

I'm not saying it's not a broken system, but if it's going to be unfair, it should be equally unfair.





188 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 12


  Reply # 966701 14-Jan-2014 11:31 Send private message

stevenz:
So why is there ACC on vehicle licensing then since it's covered elsewhere?

I'm not saying it's not a broken system, but if it's going to be unfair, it should be equally unfair.



Because motor vehicle accidents cost a significant more than cycle accidents.

Also, if I read that ACC document correctly, if a car crashes into my motor bike, the cost comes from the motor cycle part of ACC. If a car crashes into my bicycle, that cost comes from the other other activity part, ACC is never going to be fair

339 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 102

Subscriber

  Reply # 966716 14-Jan-2014 11:34 Send private message

I feel for motorcycle owners with more than one bike. As people have said, you can only ride one at a time, but pay big-time for each.

Regarding the red-light running, it appears that most red-light running on bicycle is riders either using the pedestrian phase, or jumping the gun slightly to clear the intersection. While presently illegal, these both appear to be low on the risk scale, compared with cars accelerating when they see an orange.

It is also nice to be able to have these discussions here, free of most of the ranting commonly seen in other online comments.

2230 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 549


  Reply # 966717 14-Jan-2014 11:35 Send private message

stevenz:
jfanning:
stevenz: Makes them pay their part of the ACC bill perhaps?


They already do

How we're funded: The five ACC accounts


So why is there ACC on vehicle licensing then since it's covered elsewhere?

I'm not saying it's not a broken system, but if it's going to be unfair, it should be equally unfair.



Because Cars, Trucks, Vans, Motorcycles etc etc have a high accident rate and the licence fee is an easy way to gather the payment, one billing system as opposed to billing for licence then billing for ACC. It is logical. Other ACC levies e.g. Forestry etc are based on industry risk and accident modelling.  




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

2230 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 549


  Reply # 966721 14-Jan-2014 11:38 Send private message

GregV: I feel for motorcycle owners with more than one bike. As people have said, you can only ride one at a time, but pay big-time for each.

Regarding the red-light running, it appears that most red-light running on bicycle is riders either using the pedestrian phase, or jumping the gun slightly to clear the intersection. While presently illegal, these both appear to be low on the risk scale, compared with cars accelerating when they see an orange.

It is also nice to be able to have these discussions here, free of most of the ranting commonly seen in other online comments.


We have two cars and pay twice, we also have Bicycles, a wheelchair, roller blades. If we were to register cycles to gather ACC levies then parents with kids who use bikes and own cars and a Motor bike will be paying thrice or more as you cannot levy a tax against a child that does not earn.




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

332 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 61
Inactive user


  Reply # 966791 14-Jan-2014 13:38 Send private message

KiwiNZ:
... as you cannot levy a tax against a child that does not earn.


They already do ... it's called a "Student Loan". ;-)

Plus there's GST whenever the child buys something with their "own" money.

255 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 23


  Reply # 966821 14-Jan-2014 14:14 2 people support this post Send private message

I cycle to and from work in Wellington. As a general rule, I observe red lights. However, there are a couple of red lights I run. Deliberately.

Let me explain why.

Willis Street/motorway bypass intersection (i'm heading into city). I wait at the red, but cross towards the end of the red cycle with the pedestrian signal. Why? Because I have had several nasty close calls with motorists taking off at speed and nearly hitting me at this intersection. Similarly, I do the same thing at Willis St/Lambton Quay where the road narrows - last year a bus overtook me as I turned into LQ, then cut in and hit me. By leaving several seconds earlier, I get enough time to get through the narrow stretch in advance of the buses.

For both of the above - I know the lights sequence well. At no time am I placing myself, other motorists, or pedestrians at any risk.

I think there are some sensible changes that could be made from a planning perspective:

-- For very busy city streets - why not have a specific green for cyclists at the same time as pedestrian greens?

-- Investigate introducing more cycle lanes where possible. eg. Kent terrace in Wellington is murder for cyclists. Why not get rid of the wide traffic island in the middle and introduce specific cycle lanes?



2230 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 549


  Reply # 966830 14-Jan-2014 14:19 Send private message

dafman: I cycle to and from work in Wellington. As a general rule, I observe red lights. However, there are a couple of red lights I run. Deliberately.

Let me explain why.

Willis Street/motorway bypass intersection (i'm heading into city). I wait at the red, but cross towards the end of the red cycle with the pedestrian signal. Why? Because I have had several nasty close calls with motorists taking off at speed and nearly hitting me at this intersection. Similarly, I do the same thing at Willis St/Lambton Quay where the road narrows - last year a bus overtook me as I turned into LQ, then cut in and hit me. By leaving several seconds earlier, I get enough time to get through the narrow stretch in advance of the buses.

For both of the above - I know the lights sequence well. At no time am I placing myself, other motorists, or pedestrians at any risk.

I think there are some sensible changes that could be made from a planning perspective:

-- For very busy city streets - why not have a specific green for cyclists at the same time as pedestrian greens?

-- Investigate introducing more cycle lanes where possible. eg. Kent terrace in Wellington is murder for cyclists. Why not get rid of the wide traffic island in the middle and introduce specific cycle lanes?




I agree with a lot of this, in the US you can turn left on a Red. As for cars at traffic lights, I don't see why there is this attitude at each set of lights are the start of a 1/4 mile drag race, it's pathetic. There is a lot of scope for cycle lanes and in suburbia the footpaths could become a shared zone like they are on Oriental Parade




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


  Reply # 966833 14-Jan-2014 14:22 Send private message

KiwiNZ:

I agree with a lot of this, in the US you can turn left on a Red.


You will get a big fine in the US for doing that.

2230 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 549


  Reply # 966838 14-Jan-2014 14:30 Send private message

Klipspringer:
KiwiNZ:

I agree with a lot of this, in the US you can turn left on a Red.


You will get a big fine in the US for doing that.


It maybe right turn or left it confuses  me a simple Kiwi but there is a law where you can turn against a red in some circumstances, they showed it on Top Gear as well, they reckon it was the US only contribution to civilisation :P




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

2230 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 549


  Reply # 966842 14-Jan-2014 14:35 Send private message

TinyTim:
dafman: I cycle to and from work in Wellington. As a general rule, I observe red lights. However, there are a couple of red lights I run. Deliberately.



I run the lights coming onto Tinakori Road opposite the motorway on/off ramps, because those lights only go green when triggered by a car, and unless a car comes up behind me I'll be waiting there all day. I go as the Tinakori-direction lights go amber, before the off ramp lights go green (when my light would go green if I triggered the sensor)


They need to install cycle sensors or buttons in these circumstances to stop forced law breaking 




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

gzt

3773 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 111

Subscriber

  Reply # 966843 14-Jan-2014 14:37 Send private message

That's one to report to the City in case it's an easy fix. Nobody tells them, they don't know.

Looking to the future, in those cases where there is no pedestrian button to push then something should be installed for cyclists to trigger manually.

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