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  Reply # 984361 11-Feb-2014 18:34 Send private message

RunningMan:
Geektastic:

If you want daytime running lights, just turn on your headlights...!


Would certainly do the job, and as long as you follow the rules about when to use main or dipped beam, perfectly allowable.

Doesn't have the bling factor though ;-)

I read somewhere recently (can't find the reference now) headlights account for about 0.2l/100 km fuel consumption, so might save a small amount of fuel if using LED lights.


I'm a bit old to be overly concerned about 'bling factor' when choosing my vehicles..!

Just buy a new car - daytime running lights are a legal requirement in Europe now I think (and several US states) so most of them come factory fitted!








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  Reply # 984364 11-Feb-2014 18:36 Send private message

paulmilbank: All conditions is dependent on the previous sentence: "during the hours of darkness and whenever visibility is poor". Try it past a cop and you are likely to get a ticket if using them in the day. Fog or running lights are for foggy, poor or dark conditions and should not be used during the day. Have them fitted by all means, but you must not use them in the day.
Source is that a mate got fined for doing just that last year over Christmas and then, because he did not learn his lesson, again in February last year during the cannonball run. It was a $150 fine if I remember correctly. So if severity of fine is a judge of the offence, it is more frowned upon than speeding at 10 - 15KM past the posted limit.
*EDIT* On reading links posted there is some difference between fog and running lights in the wiring and style of the lamp, but probably best to make sure they are wired totally legally and turn off and on when they should as I think some cops might just treat them as fog lights. Probably best to have a handy explanation of why yours are legal too.


Front or rear facing fog lamps?

In the UK, it is normal for people to be stopped and fined if they leave their rear facing fog lights on when there is no fog. Night or day, makes no difference to the illegality. That dates back at least to the late eighties.

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  Reply # 984366 11-Feb-2014 18:37 Send private message

jpoc: Driving with your lights on during the day in NZ would be a pretty selfish act though. Headlights or daytime running lights being equal.

. . .

The situation is different in the far north of Europe. Twilight lasts a lot longer there and it was felt that daytime running lights would increase overall safety by making all vehicles stand out more in the hours between full daylight and night.


Driving with your lights on during the day in NZ would only be a selfish act if others couldn't drive with their lights on.  I don't see how it would be a bad thing if all drivers drove with their lights on.

As far back as the early 1990s all new vehicles in Canada had to have daytime running lights on at all times that the vehicle was in motion.  Our last ute there (1994) ran with its high beams on half power as DRLs.

I understand, though, that some research in Queensland suggested that daytime running lights are not of much benefit in areas (like AU/NZ) with generally high levels of ambient light.



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  Reply # 984374 11-Feb-2014 18:54 Send private message

jpoc: Driving with your lights on during the day in NZ would be a pretty selfish act though. Headlights or daytime running lights being equal.



I find your comments bizzarre to say the least. 

Low beam/daytime running lights do not blind anyone especially during the day. 



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  Reply # 984393 11-Feb-2014 19:23 Send private message

surfisup1000:
jpoc: Driving with your lights on during the day in NZ would be a pretty selfish act though. Headlights or daytime running lights being equal.



I find your comments bizzarre to say the least. 

Low beam/daytime running lights do not blind anyone especially during the day. 




Obviously you do not understand the point. The lights do not dazzle - I do not think that I said that they did - but the more common that they become, the more they habituate you to seeing such lights in the daytime.

Today, if you see a light, it is likely that the light belongs to a motorbike, a pilot vehicle for an unusual load or some other vehicle to which you should pay extra attention because it indicates a vulnerable or hazardous road user.

If all vehicles have DRLs, then the vehicles that need to stand out will no longer do so and your subconscious will no longer be picking them out. That means an overall increase in risk.



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  Reply # 984396 11-Feb-2014 19:30 Send private message

Unusual load vehicles should use hazard lights. In Norway they often have a follow vehicle at the front and the back of the unusual load vehicle.

When it comes to bikes, they use high beams most of the time in Norway and here in NZ (from what I understand) its mandatory to have the headlights on now.

I feel safer when passing a car in Norway because I know a possible meeting car/vehicle will have their headlights on and it is easier to see them than it is here in NZ.




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  Reply # 984397 11-Feb-2014 19:30 Send private message

Geektastic:

I'm a bit old to be overly concerned about 'bling factor' when choosing my vehicles..!


Surely you could be tempted with a spoiler kit, neons, big blow off valve with a trumpet, some bone-jarring low suspension and loud doof doof music;-)


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  Reply # 984402 11-Feb-2014 19:33 Send private message

kiwigander:
jpoc: Driving with your lights on during the day in NZ would be a pretty selfish act though. Headlights or daytime running lights being equal.

. . .

The situation is different in the far north of Europe. Twilight lasts a lot longer there and it was felt that daytime running lights would increase overall safety by making all vehicles stand out more in the hours between full daylight and night.


Driving with your lights on during the day in NZ would only be a selfish act if others couldn't drive with their lights on.  I don't see how it would be a bad thing if all drivers drove with their lights on.

As far back as the early 1990s all new vehicles in Canada had to have daytime running lights on at all times that the vehicle was in motion.  Our last ute there (1994) ran with its high beams on half power as DRLs.

I understand, though, that some research in Queensland suggested that daytime running lights are not of much benefit in areas (like AU/NZ) with generally high levels of ambient light.




It is selfish because, as more vehicles drive with lights on in the daytime, the lights become more common and thus less distinctive so that the vehicles that should stand out as warranting extra attention no longer do so.

The situation in Canada is the same as in Scandinavia - with low light levels in the winter daytime and long twilight periods. There, DRLs have a greater utility and reduce overall accident levels. This is not the case at lower latitudes.

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  Reply # 984408 11-Feb-2014 19:47 Send private message

jarledb: Unusual load vehicles should use hazard lights. In Norway they often have a follow vehicle at the front and the back of the unusual load vehicle.

When it comes to bikes, they use high beams most of the time in Norway and here in NZ (from what I understand) its mandatory to have the headlights on now.

I feel safer when passing a car in Norway because I know a possible meeting car/vehicle will have their headlights on and it is easier to see them than it is here in NZ.


Wow. You mean that in broad daylight, you are not confident about seeing a car coming towards you at say 200 metres even though you are about to overtake and should be checking the road ahead with great care?


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  Reply # 984430 11-Feb-2014 20:02

Geektastic: If you want daytime running lights, just turn on your headlights...!


If you want improved vision at night it's better to use high output bulbs (+50 or +90 H4s) than standard bulbs plus fog lights. High output bulbs have a shorter life span than standard bulbs. Using dipped beam during the day would probably mean that you'd be replacing a set of headlight bulbs every year.

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  Reply # 984431 11-Feb-2014 20:04 Send private message

jarledb: Unusual load vehicles should use hazard lights. In Norway they often have a follow vehicle at the front and the back of the unusual load vehicle.

When it comes to bikes, they use high beams most of the time in Norway and here in NZ (from what I understand) its mandatory to have the headlights on now.

I feel safer when passing a car in Norway because I know a possible meeting car/vehicle will have their headlights on and it is easier to see them than it is here in NZ.


I'll expand upon this one as the overtake on a straight road in broad daylight is a good situation to explain the masking effect on motorbikes.

You are about to overtake. Coming towards you is a motorbike followed at a distance by a car which is being followed by a truck. You note that there is oncoming traffic and you try to judge the distance to determine whether or not it is safe to overtake. Your brain does that clever parallax thing and throws in perception of size and rate of change in perceived size. The focus when you are doing that is probably on the car as being the most distinct object on the other side of the road. You may very well be conscious of the motorbike but your distance perception does not take it into account and you start to overtake.

Now let the motorbike have its light on. The bike's bright light is the most prominent item in your field of vision and your judgement of distance is now based on the position of the bike and you stay safe on your side of the road.

Finally, let the car driver have dipped headlights on. Your distance perception will now revert to the car and you will pull out.

It's hard to learn better behaviour in such a situation because that is the way that our minds work.

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  Reply # 984445 11-Feb-2014 20:10 Send private message

jarledb: 

When it comes to bikes, they use high beams most of the time in Norway and here in NZ (from what I understand) its mandatory to have the headlights on now.

I feel safer when passing a car in Norway because I know a possible meeting car/vehicle will have their headlights on and it is easier to see them than it is here in NZ.


Actually glare is an issue... It's not like NZ has flat roads. I used to drive 14hr days and the amount of people with headlights on during the day can make a difference when they bounce over a bump and still blind a driver, lights in your mirror bouncing around are also very distracting. In your mirror, it also makes it hard to know if it's some dick bouncing over bumps or emergency services with their flashing headlights.

I think only bikes should be allowed day-running lights.

Bikes shouldn't be running high-beam in NZ at all. And most don't. It might look like it due to the bike lights being higher than a car, but only a-holes run high-beam in daylight.

Edit: don't get me started on the ^#$#^% using front and/or rear fog lights when it's not foggy.

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  Reply # 984571 11-Feb-2014 21:58 Send private message

jpoc: Front or rear facing fog lamps?

In the UK, it is normal for people to be stopped and fined if they leave their rear facing fog lights on when there is no fog. Night or day, makes no difference to the illegality. That dates back at least to the late eighties.


Front bumper lights.

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  Reply # 984587 11-Feb-2014 22:13 Send private message

jarledb:

From what I can understand it is legal to drive with headlights on at all times here in NZ, but it seems like there is quite a lot of people flashing their hight beams when I have tried driving with them during the day.. :)



I drive with them on during the day when its really misty. Other than that I do sometimes switch them on during a normal day drive on SH1.

Our State Highway 1 just north of Wellington is an awful road. Its not really a highway but 100km/h in some places and without the luxury of entry/exit ramps. I find many cars on this stretch of road take chances and sometimes predict your speed incorrectly. They will just cross over in front of you to turn off. Driving with my headlights on always seems to make the trip feel a little safer. People see the lights coming and I think its a little easier for them to see you and predict your speed a little more accurately.



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  Reply # 984669 12-Feb-2014 00:09 Send private message

jpoc: 
Wow. You mean that in broad daylight, you are not confident about seeing a car coming towards you at say 200 metres even though you are about to overtake and should be checking the road ahead with great care?


Trust me, I take great care when passing and I try to avoid doing that unless there is actual passing lanes. I have seen head on collisions up close and don't want to get in one of those.






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