Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.



2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


Topic # 140945 25-Feb-2014 09:17 Send private message

Until last week I had no idea of this law..

My daughters dancing class has a certificate on the wall which says they "Licensed to play music" WOW!

So I looked into this and stumbled upon this website

http://www.retail.org.nz/musicinstores.html

A licence is required by anyone who plays music audio and / or video recordings in public. ‘In public’, for example, includes in retail stores and malls, clubs, salons, restaurants, cafes and bars. If your phone system includes a music on-hold facility, this also needs to be licensed.


Any business found to be playing copyrighted material in public without the appropriate licence is breaking the law. Usually two licences are required: a Public Performance Licence from PPNZ and an APRA licence.


Publicity of the prosecution of a Palmerston North business in recent years raised the awareness of retailers to the need for licensing. The business was ordered to stop illegally playing music for which it did not have a Public Performance Licence and to pay costs and damages amounting to almost $3,500.00.


Are you freaking kidding me ...

But wait there is some good news:

The good news is that the NZRA has negotiated a discount for members of 10% off the APRA licence fee.


When trying to work out how much a licence costs it seems impossible to find out. I have to register myself/company first (providing them with my details so they can come investigate later I suppose).

On the PPNZ site it mentions the following:

With the massive impact of recorded music on creating a great atmosphere, it is only fair that the owners of that recorded music be paid when their music is played in a public, community or business setting. Purchasing a CD or downloading music tracks provides you with the permission to use this music in a domestic setting only. So, playing recorded music in public requires the consent or permission of the copyright owner. In New Zealand, these rights of recording artists and labels are protected under the Copyright Act 1994.


http://ppnz.co.nz/business-and-community.php

So this raises a couple of questions:

- Listening to free streaming radio stations is free for anybody. Do you need a licence to play Pandora or Spotify? Its overseas radio. Does that law apply in NZ?

- What about tradies that play their music in vans while driving? Thats public too (not as their example but arguably so). The taxi's? do they have licences to play the radio?

- Do Non New Zealand artists benefit from this? Ie the license fee. Do they get a cut? If now why not?

- If I have the artists permission. Am I allowed to play the music in public?

- And are they absolutely serious that I need to pay a licence fee for a business phone system with on-hold music? What if I compose the music myself?

OK. So this one got me wound up for the week. To me it seems like just another "Nanny State" law. Useless and just a con to collect money. Or am I missing something here?

How many of you guys that have businesses pay your license fee?


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5


2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


  Reply # 993877 25-Feb-2014 09:33 Send private message

Seems I have found some fees on licenses ...

https://www.onemusicnz.com/licence-info/which-licence

1261 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 84


  Reply # 993880 25-Feb-2014 09:37 Send private message

Sheet, I think I have music on my home phone when people ring me!






2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


  Reply # 993888 25-Feb-2014 09:42 Send private message

This one is interesting:

They selling a licence that allows businesses to reproduce and copy music.

So if you playing music that has been copied, it seems you need an additional license. (Only an additional $276.00 per year).

https://www.onemusicnz.com/licence-info/which-licence/reproducing-and-copying-music-in-your-business/

Talk about miking.

Voice Engineer @ Orcon
1927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 434

Trusted
Orcon
Subscriber

  Reply # 993890 25-Feb-2014 09:48 Send private message

Having been in the PBX and Retail games, I've done some research on these laws... IANAL.

- Listening to free streaming radio stations is free for anybody. Do you need a licence to play Pandora or Spotify? Its overseas radio. Does that law apply in NZ?

Only if playing it in a public place.

- What about tradies that play their music in vans while driving? Thats public too (not as their example but arguably so). The taxi's? do they have licences to play the radio?

Technically, yes.  Any time you play music "in public" you should have the license.  Even playing music in a workplace technically requires a license.

- Do Non New Zealand artists benefit from this? Ie the license fee. Do they get a cut? If now why not?

As I understand it there is some kind of reciprocal arrangement between APRA, RIAA and similar organizations.

- If I have the artists permission. Am I allowed to play the music in public?

If you have permission from the artist (and they actually own it, eg. not a label) then yes.

- And are they absolutely serious that I need to pay a licence fee for a business phone system with on-hold music? What if I compose the music myself?

If you compose your own music or otherwise negotiate a license, they can't make you pay the fee.


2556 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 428

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 993891 25-Feb-2014 09:48 Send private message

Music licencing is very antediluvian.

Just look, for example, at the vast difference between what is in the US iTunes store and what is in the NZ one - ours is probably less than 30% of the size in terms of content. Of course it is easy to circumvent this inane stupidity but you really should not need to.

IMO you should be free to use music which you purchased legally for any non-charging use. EG if you play it on hold or in the background or whatever.

If you want to use it to soundtrack a video presentation you will be selling or something like that, you should pay the artist and that is fair enough.

As a photographer I have to live in a world where people rip images off and re-post them with gay abandon and there is virtually no hope of stopping it or benefitting from it financially.








53 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 13


  Reply # 993892 25-Feb-2014 09:49 4 people support this post Send private message

This isn't new - there have been provisions for paying performers for public performances of their work all over the world for over a hundred years, although it was dealt with differently in various regions (ie the BMI and ASCAP situation in the US), so has been one of the revenue streams of recording artists for longer than you've been alive, along with radio fees, record sales, royalties etc.

It's pretty straightforward - if you are using someone's performance in your business to increase your profits, then you have to pay them a nominal fee to do so. Purchasing a CD or DVD doesn't give you the right to make money off it by playing it for others in public.

Of course every few years there is a news story about some cafe or other being fined for playing music to their patrons, but they wouldn't be playing the music if it wasn't increasing their business profits to do so.

Obviously workers out on a job playing music to themselves in a van isn't a "public performance", and equally obviously if you are using recorded music to keep your customers happy while waiting on the phone, this recorded music is intended to aid your business profits. (Or you can use the out-of-copyright and prelicensed chip-tune version of Greensleeves that was provided as hold music for this very reason).

If you bought a recording, of course you can listen to it wherever you want, but if you want to use the music as a part of your commercial operation you need a licence.

2884 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 88

Trusted

  Reply # 993912 25-Feb-2014 10:16 Send private message

Geektastic: As a photographer I have to live in a world where people rip images off and re-post them with gay abandon and there is virtually no hope of stopping it or benefitting from it financially.

But, do you not wish there were such hope?



2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


  Reply # 993915 25-Feb-2014 10:18 Send private message

tieke:
It's pretty straightforward - if you are using someone's performance in your business to increase your profits, then you have to pay them a nominal fee to do so. Purchasing a CD or DVD doesn't give you the right to make money off it by playing it for others in public.


Then why so many licences? And why an additional license for phone music? And another additional licence if you playing music which you have copied from a CD?





2509 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 243

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 993916 25-Feb-2014 10:19 Send private message

New Zealand is not unique in this respect. Australia, the US, the UK, even South Africa have the same rules.

(See http://www.samro.org.za/samro-music-users-south-africa/who-needs-a-music-lincene-from-samro)

The bit that should really get your goat is that if you pay for a PPNZ license, you STILL need to separately pay for an APRA|AMCOS license. You also need an APRA license if you play TV on your premises. Hell, you even need to pay for an APRA license if you have a band come in and play their own music.

The exception is the radio - if you play radio, the PPNZ license is already covered and you need only cover the APRA license.



2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


  Reply # 993935 25-Feb-2014 10:24 Send private message

Kyanar: New Zealand is not unique in this respect. Australia, the US, the UK, even South Africa have the same rules.

(See http://www.samro.org.za/samro-music-users-south-africa/who-needs-a-music-lincene-from-samro)

The bit that should really get your goat is that if you pay for a PPNZ license, you STILL need to separately pay for an APRA|AMCOS license. You also need an APRA license if you play TV on your premises. Hell, you even need to pay for an APRA license if you have a band come in and play their own music.

The exception is the radio - if you play radio, the PPNZ license is already covered and you need only cover the APRA license.


I dont think their rules are nearly as complicated as ours...

2509 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 243

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 993936 25-Feb-2014 10:24 Send private message

Klipspringer:
tieke:
It's pretty straightforward - if you are using someone's performance in your business to increase your profits, then you have to pay them a nominal fee to do so. Purchasing a CD or DVD doesn't give you the right to make money off it by playing it for others in public.


Then why so many licences? And why an additional license for phone music? And another additional licence if you playing music which you have copied from a CD?


Don't know where you're getting this "additional license" from.  There are two potential licenses you need.  One is from APRA-AMCOS (Australasian Performing Rights Association / Australasian Mechanical Copyright Owners Society) and the other is from PPNZ (Phonographic Performances New Zealand).  The site you linked to, OneMusic, is operated by both of these organisations and if you get a license via that it covers both societies (i.e. no additional license needed).



2391 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 292
Inactive user


  Reply # 993940 25-Feb-2014 10:26 Send private message

Kyanar:
Klipspringer:
tieke:
It's pretty straightforward - if you are using someone's performance in your business to increase your profits, then you have to pay them a nominal fee to do so. Purchasing a CD or DVD doesn't give you the right to make money off it by playing it for others in public.


Then why so many licences? And why an additional license for phone music? And another additional licence if you playing music which you have copied from a CD?


Don't know where you're getting this "additional license" from.  There are two potential licenses you need.  One is from APRA-AMCOS (Australasian Performing Rights Association / Australasian Mechanical Copyright Owners Society) and the other is from PPNZ (Phonographic Performances New Zealand).  The site you linked to, OneMusic, is operated by both of these organisations and if you get a license via that it covers both societies (i.e. no additional license needed).


A separate license is required to play "copied" music. Or am I missing something?

https://www.onemusicnz.com/licence-info/which-licence/reproducing-and-copying-music-in-your-business/

Voice Engineer @ Orcon
1927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 434

Trusted
Orcon
Subscriber

  Reply # 993941 25-Feb-2014 10:29 Send private message

Klipspringer:
Kyanar:
Klipspringer:
tieke:
It's pretty straightforward - if you are using someone's performance in your business to increase your profits, then you have to pay them a nominal fee to do so. Purchasing a CD or DVD doesn't give you the right to make money off it by playing it for others in public.


Then why so many licences? And why an additional license for phone music? And another additional licence if you playing music which you have copied from a CD?


Don't know where you're getting this "additional license" from.  There are two potential licenses you need.  One is from APRA-AMCOS (Australasian Performing Rights Association / Australasian Mechanical Copyright Owners Society) and the other is from PPNZ (Phonographic Performances New Zealand).  The site you linked to, OneMusic, is operated by both of these organisations and if you get a license via that it covers both societies (i.e. no additional license needed).


A separate license is required to play "copied" music. Or am I missing something?

https://www.onemusicnz.com/licence-info/which-licence/reproducing-and-copying-music-in-your-business/


As I read it, this is to cover the "Lost revenue" due to you buying only one copy and playing it in multiple places.  If you just bought multiple copies in the first place, no need for this license.

2509 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 243

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 993945 25-Feb-2014 10:32 One person supports this post Send private message

Klipspringer:
Kyanar: New Zealand is not unique in this respect. Australia, the US, the UK, even South Africa have the same rules.

(See http://www.samro.org.za/samro-music-users-south-africa/who-needs-a-music-lincene-from-samro)

The bit that should really get your goat is that if you pay for a PPNZ license, you STILL need to separately pay for an APRA|AMCOS license. You also need an APRA license if you play TV on your premises. Hell, you even need to pay for an APRA license if you have a band come in and play their own music.

The exception is the radio - if you play radio, the PPNZ license is already covered and you need only cover the APRA license.


I dont think their rules are nearly as complicated as ours...


And you'd be wrong.  In South Africa, you need to pay SAMRO and SAMPRA, depending on what you use the music for (sometimes one of the two, sometimes both.  What decides?  Who knows!).  In the UK you have to pay PPL and PRS, depending what you use the music for (again, who knows what factors decide which you have to pay).  In Australia, it's easy - the same as New Zealand.  And by easy, I mean just as convoluted.  In the USA, it's BMI and ASCAP (again, depending on what you use the music for).

2556 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 428

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 993949 25-Feb-2014 10:34 Send private message

bazzer:
Geektastic: As a photographer I have to live in a world where people rip images off and re-post them with gay abandon and there is virtually no hope of stopping it or benefitting from it financially.

But, do you not wish there were such hope?


I may as well wish donuts were dollars.

Photographers have no Hollywood moguls or FBI campaigns to protect their work and never will.

For example, the three strikes law does not apply (AFAIK) to a user who infringes image copyright.








 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic




Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





Trending now »

Hot discussions in our forums right now:

Speed limit when overtaking? Teach me please.
Created by nakedmolerat, last reply by joker97 on 25-Oct-2014 09:00 (75 replies)
Pages... 3 4 5


House Auctions
Created by t0ny, last reply by mattwnz on 25-Oct-2014 00:18 (36 replies)
Pages... 2 3


American legal jurisdiction in New Zealand
Created by ajobbins, last reply by gzt on 21-Oct-2014 14:58 (30 replies)
Pages... 2


iPad Air 2 and iPad Mini 3. Gonna get one?
Created by Dingbatt, last reply by tdgeek on 25-Oct-2014 11:19 (113 replies)
Pages... 6 7 8


Neon - Sky's new streaming service
Created by JarrodM, last reply by tdgeek on 25-Oct-2014 10:55 (25 replies)
Pages... 2


5Ghz AP recommendations?
Created by ubergeeknz, last reply by sbiddle on 24-Oct-2014 12:42 (12 replies)

Snap have failed our company!
Created by dafman, last reply by kornflake on 23-Oct-2014 17:41 (37 replies)
Pages... 2 3


Thief taunts 12 year old via stolen laptop
Created by macuser, last reply by charsleysa on 22-Oct-2014 23:49 (12 replies)


Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.