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566 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 143461 15-Apr-2014 16:38 Send private message

Currently New Zealand has a Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy as our form of government.

I would like to hear your thoughts about whether we should keep the current form of government or seek a new form of government.

To start off the discussion I will propose that New Zealand should have a Parliamentary Meritocracy.

To aid the understanding of the differences I have listed their defining attributes, I welcome other types of government into this discussion.

Parliamentary Constitutional Monarchy
Variant of monarchy; a system of governance that has a monarch, but one whose powers are limited by law or by a formal constitution.
A system of democratic government in which the ministers of the executive branch derive their legitimacy from and are accountable to a legislature or parliament; the executive and legislative branches are interconnected. It is a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them.

Parliamentary Meritocracy
Rule by the meritorious; a system of governance where groups are selected on the basis of people's ability, knowledge in a given area, and contributions to society.
A system of democratic government in which the ministers of the executive branch derive their legitimacy from and are accountable to a legislature or parliament; the executive and legislative branches are interconnected. It is a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them.




Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

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3578 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1025698 15-Apr-2014 16:52 3 people support this post Send private message

No thanks, we should stick with what we have, no need for elitist nonsense.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.



566 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1025700 15-Apr-2014 16:59 One person supports this post Send private message

KiwiNZ: No thanks, we should stick with what we have, no need for elitist nonsense.


What we have already is elitist.

How much of a chance do you think you have of becoming king or queen? None whatsoever because you must be born into the position.




Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

3578 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1298


  Reply # 1025704 15-Apr-2014 17:04 Send private message

The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

286 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 98


  Reply # 1025705 15-Apr-2014 17:05 Send private message

I like idea of the British Westminster system -  but perhaps with a few tweaks to make things more equitable.

We certainly need a Parliament – a House of Representatives who's members are fairly elected representatives of the people, to run the country and make the laws , but a Senate or Upper House to double check and rubber stamp legislation? – they'd end up being dead weight at the Taxpayer's expense – so don't want them.

I do think we need a kind of safety valve on the system though, an arbitor who's powers are so restricted they can only step in in an absolute emergency, and perhaps at the request of the people dissolve Parliament if it somehow goes off the rails.... but not be able to morph into a dictator, a sort of State Figurehead (we could maybe call them “Royals”)

Oh .. hang on..

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  Reply # 1025707 15-Apr-2014 17:07 3 people support this post Send private message

From Monty Python's "Holy Grail"

Scene 3
      [clop clop]
  ARTHUR:  Old woman!
  DENNIS:  Man!
  ARTHUR: Old Man, sorry.  What knight lives in that castle over there?
  DENNIS:  I'm thirty seven.
  ARTHUR:  What?
  DENNIS:  I'm thirty seven -- I'm not old!
  ARTHUR:  Well, I can't just call you `Man'.
  DENNIS:  Well, you could say `Dennis'.
  ARTHUR:  Well, I didn't know you were called `Dennis.'
  DENNIS:  Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you?
  ARTHUR:  I did say sorry about the `old woman,' but from the behind
      you looked--
  DENNIS:  What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior!
  ARTHUR:  Well, I AM king...
  DENNIS:  Oh king, eh, very nice.  An' how'd you get that, eh?  By
      exploitin' the workers -- by 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma
      which perpetuates the economic an' social differences in our society!
      If there's ever going to be any progress--
  WOMAN:  Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here.  Oh -- how d'you do?
  ARTHUR:  How do you do, good lady.  I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
      Who's castle is that?
  WOMAN:  King of the who?
  ARTHUR:  The Britons.
  WOMAN:  Who are the Britons?
  ARTHUR:  Well, we all are. we're all Britons and I am your king.
  WOMAN:  I didn't know we had a king.  I thought we were an autonomous
      collective.
  DENNIS:  You're fooling yourself.  We're living in a dictatorship.
      A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
  WOMAN:  Oh there you go, bringing class into it again.
  DENNIS:  That's what it's all about if only people would--
  ARTHUR:  Please, please good people.  I am in haste.  Who lives
      in that castle?
  WOMAN:  No one lives there.
  ARTHUR:  Then who is your lord?
  WOMAN:  We don't have a lord.
  ARTHUR:  What?
  DENNIS:  I told you.  We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune.  We take
      it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
  ARTHUR:  Yes.
  DENNIS:  But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
      at a special biweekly meeting.
  ARTHUR:  Yes, I see.
  DENNIS:  By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
  ARTHUR:  Be quiet!
  DENNIS:  --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
  ARTHUR:  Be quiet!  I order you to be quiet!
  WOMAN:  Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
  ARTHUR:  I am your king!
  WOMAN:  Well, I didn't vote for you.
  ARTHUR:  You don't vote for kings.
  WOMAN:  Well, 'ow did you become king then?
  ARTHUR:  The Lady of the Lake,
      [angels sing]
      her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur
      from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I,
      Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
      [singing stops]
      That is why I am your king!
  DENNIS:  Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
      is no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power
      derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
      aquatic ceremony.
  ARTHUR:  Be quiet!
  DENNIS:  Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power
      just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
  ARTHUR:  Shut up!
  DENNIS:  I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just
      because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd
      put me away!
  ARTHUR:  Shut up!  Will you shut up!
  DENNIS:  Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
  ARTHUR:  Shut up!
  DENNIS:  Oh!  Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
      HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
  ARTHUR:  Bloody peasant!
  DENNIS:  Oh, what a give away.  Did you hear that, did you hear that,
      eh?  That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me,
      you saw it didn't you?

EDIT: Cut and paste - no responsibility taken for spelling errors



566 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1025714 15-Apr-2014 17:15 Send private message

KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.


Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.




Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

1724 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 1025716 15-Apr-2014 17:20 Send private message

charsleysa:
Parliamentary Meritocracy
Rule by the meritorious; a system of governance where groups are selected on the basis of people's ability, knowledge in a given area, and contributions to society.


Selected by whom, and how...


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  Reply # 1025718 15-Apr-2014 17:21 Send private message

charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.


Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.


My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State.  Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.



566 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1025720 15-Apr-2014 17:25 Send private message

KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.


Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.


My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State.  Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.


The Head of State is part of the government, therefore a portion of our government is elitist.

There is no need for a elitist monarchical head of state.




Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

3578 posts

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  Reply # 1025723 15-Apr-2014 17:31 Send private message

charsleysa:
KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.


Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.


My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State.  Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.


The Head of State is part of the government, therefore a portion of our government is elitist.

There is no need for a elitist monarchical head of state.


The Governor General our Head of State in practice was an Army Private, so anyone can become head of state




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

286 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 98


  Reply # 1025724 15-Apr-2014 17:37 Send private message

I propose E-democracy.. 

Wikipedia: (a combination of the words electronic and democracy) incorporates 21st century information and communications technology to promote democracy.
That means a form of government in which all adult citizens are presumed to be eligible to participate equally in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.

And all votes should be cast using SSL to make the results safe and secure.



566 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1025726 15-Apr-2014 17:40 Send private message

KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ:
charsleysa:
KiwiNZ: The Queen is Head of State with limited powers, the Government is those guys in the Beehive.


Yes, your point being?

My point was the fact that you'll never be able to become head of state government with the current government because you must be part of an elitist group, therefore already having the elitist nonsense you wanted to avoid.


My point was anyone can become the Leader of our fine little Dominion. The PM and House of Representatives are the Government NOT the Head of State.  Therefore our current Government is not an elitist group.


The Head of State is part of the government, therefore a portion of our government is elitist.

There is no need for a elitist monarchical head of state.


The Governor General our Head of State in practice was an Army Private, so anyone can become head of state


Incorrect. The Governor General is not our head of state. The Governor General is the Queen's representative, this is specifically outlined on the Governor General's website.




Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

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  Reply # 1025727 15-Apr-2014 17:45 Send private message

I said Head of State in practice.




Mike

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.



566 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110


  Reply # 1025730 15-Apr-2014 17:51 Send private message

Sidestep: I propose E-democracy.. 

Wikipedia: (a combination of the words electronic and democracy) incorporates 21st century information and communications technology to promote democracy.
That means a form of government in which all adult citizens are presumed to be eligible to participate equally in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.

And all votes should be cast using SSL to make the results safe and secure.


This form of government could be quite difficult to manage if not done so with care.

The Electoral Commission would have to be in charge of making sure each person only has one account and that no one is able to take on more than one identity otherwise it would lead to fraudulent and unfair creation of laws.




Regards
Stefan Andres Charsley

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  Reply # 1025736 15-Apr-2014 18:01 Send private message

charsleysa:

How much of a chance do you think you have of becoming king or queen? None whatsoever because you must be born into the position.


You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart lobbed a sword at you!

EDIT: GODDAMNIT DRATSAB!




iPad Air + iPhone 5S + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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