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Topic # 208509 15-Feb-2017 11:05 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post


There are times when your political ideals force you into uncomfortable corners. I strongly dislike Peter Dunne (as a politician, of course, not personally) and I very much want him to be voted out of Parliament. He is way, way past his use-by date and he has elevated troughing off the taxpayer to an art form. If he had any sense of honour left at all, he would wind up his phoney political party but of course that would cost him the perks of being a party ‘leader’, as well as perpetual Minister of Nothing Important, and he doesn’t want to give up all the free lunches and limos and other benefits of selling his soul to the highest political bidder.

 

Labour and the Greens share my aspiration of dumping Dunne and for that I have to applaud them. I am not a supporter of Labour and I have never voted for them. I am not a supporter of the Greens either, though I have voted for them. I am not a supporter of any political party as I believe they all have a corrupting influence on democracy. I prefer to support ideas and to place my vote where the best ones are. There isn’t a great deal of real choice in New Zealand, so my party vote is often by necessity a protest vote.

 

Labour and the Greens have now agreed to collude to increase their prospects of finally dislodging the Member for Life. I doubt he will go quietly. The problem is, in order to do this, Labour and the Greens have abandoned the principles that are supposed to distinguish them from, say, National and (horrors) United Future. They are undermining the spirit of MMP with a cosy deal designed to game the system, just like Peter Dunne, so they can get their way in an election. Of course they deny this. James Shaw especially denies it. ‘I’m not a hypocrite,’ he says. ‘It is okay if we do it, because we do it for the right reasons.’ Or something like that.

 

So yet another politician is cynical and unprincipled. Where is the surprise in that? In fact, it doesn’t surprise me at all and that is one reason I don’t support any political party. But it does present me with a problem. All other things being equal, I probably would have voted for the Greens again this time for lack of anything better, though I preferred Russel Norman. But now I can’t. And it is unlikely that Labour would ever have such a good idea that I would be able to vote for them. To my mind they are just an inferior version of National, and I don’t have much time for either.

 

I guess I will have to vote for the cannabis party again. If there is a big enough swing in their direction, maybe whatever government we end up with will take notice. At least it won’t have Peter Dunne in it.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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Displaced Viking
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  Reply # 1720473 15-Feb-2017 11:13 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

Voting has always been tactical and cross party collaboration and coalitions are a good part of MMP. If its up front like it is in Ohariu I see no issue. At the end of voting day the residents of that electorate will decide if they will continue with Mr Dunne or not. I don't fully agree with him however he is not past his "use by date" at 62. I am not in the Ohariu electorate so the outcome is not my issue.





Mike
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  Reply # 1720476 15-Feb-2017 11:19 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

Wasn't it Labour that was lamenting national and Act for the Epsom deal?

 

I think your decision to get behind ideas is best as principal is lacking amongst politicians!








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  Reply # 1720503 15-Feb-2017 11:30 2 people support this post Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

Voting has always been tactical and cross party collaboration and coalitions are a good part of MMP. If its up front like it is in Ohariu I see no issue. At the end of voting day the residents of that electorate will decide if they will continue with Mr Dunne or not. I don't fully agree with him however he is not past his "use by date" at 62. I am not in the Ohariu electorate so the outcome is not my issue.

 

 

My italics. That is the whole point, Mike. Dunne represents almost no-one in New Zealand. No-one except his drinking buddies votes for his sham party. Nearly everyone in the country resides outside his electorate, so he doesn't represent us and we do not have the choice to vote against him. Yet because of our crazy political system, he is able to cast the deciding vote on a large number of very important issues that do affect me and other people, giving the National-led 'coalition' a majority in Parliament. Where is the democracy in one old fossil elected by a couple of thousand people in one single electorate being able to decide whether or not major issues that affect all of us get passed into law or not?

 

 





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  Reply # 1720504 15-Feb-2017 11:31 Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4:

 

Voting has always been tactical and cross party collaboration and coalitions are a good part of MMP. If its up front like it is in Ohariu I see no issue. At the end of voting day the residents of that electorate will decide if they will continue with Mr Dunne or not. I don't fully agree with him however he is not past his "use by date" at 62. I am not in the Ohariu electorate so the outcome is not my issue.

 

 

My italics. That is the whole point, Mike. Dunne represents almost no-one in New Zealand. No-one except his drinking buddies votes for his sham party. Nearly everyone in the country resides outside his electorate, so he doesn't represent us and we do not have the choice to vote against him. Yet because of our crazy political system, he is able to cast the deciding vote on a large number of very important issues that do affect me and other people, giving the National-led 'coalition' a majority in Parliament. Where is the democracy in one old fossil elected by a couple of thousand people in one single electorate being able to decide whether or not major issues that affect all of us get passed into law or not?

 

 

 

 

Do you know where Ohariu electorate is?

 

 

 

"Nearly everyone in the country resides outside his electorate, so he doesn't represent us and we do not have the choice to vote against him"  That is the same for every electorate in the country probably all democracies. Do you want just one electorate nationally? 





Mike
Retired IT Manager, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Don't use that mobility toilet if you can use a tree, don't use that mobility park if you can walk from down the road, don't mock that disability be it visible or not and remember it can take but a minute to join us.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1720506 15-Feb-2017 11:34 2 people support this post Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

Do you know where Ohariu electorate is?

 

 

 

 

South of the Bombays, turn left at Tijuana?





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  Reply # 1720509 15-Feb-2017 11:36 Send private message quote this post

SaltyNZ:

 

MikeB4:

 

Do you know where Ohariu electorate is?

 

 

 

 

South of the Bombays, turn left at Tijuana?

 

 

 

 

Close :P

 

 

 

It covers some wealthy suburbs and has a lot of higher income families.





Mike
Retired IT Manager, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Don't use that mobility toilet if you can use a tree, don't use that mobility park if you can walk from down the road, don't mock that disability be it visible or not and remember it can take but a minute to join us.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1720537 15-Feb-2017 11:48 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

Politics, like rugby, is a game. The referee doesn't always see everything ...




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  Reply # 1720539 15-Feb-2017 11:50 Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

 

 

"Nearly everyone in the country resides outside his electorate, so he doesn't represent us and we do not have the choice to vote against him"  That is the same for every electorate in the country probably all democracies. Do you want just one electorate nationally? 

 

 

I want one person chosen by one electorate to not be able to cast the deciding vote on major issues that affect the entire country because of a quirk in our political system that is being abused and manipulated. Dunne can be an ordinary MP for as long as his electorate wants to keep returning him (though I do think there should be a limit on the number of terms that can be served). That does not mean he should be able to keep deciding issues of national importance that have nothing to do specifically with his electorate.    

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1720544 15-Feb-2017 11:53 4 people support this post Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

"Nearly everyone in the country resides outside his electorate, so he doesn't represent us and we do not have the choice to vote against him"  That is the same for every electorate in the country probably all democracies. Do you want just one electorate nationally? 

 

 

I want one person chosen by one electorate to not be able to cast the deciding vote on major issues that affect the entire country because of a quirk in our political system that is being abused and manipulated. Dunne can be an ordinary MP for as long as his electorate wants to keep returning him (though I do think there should be a limit on the number of terms that can be served). That does not mean he should be able to keep deciding issues of national importance that have nothing to do specifically with his electorate.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you don't want democracy you only want representatives in all electorates that agree with your ideals. He is one of 120 votes in the house just like every other member.





Mike
Retired IT Manager, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Don't use that mobility toilet if you can use a tree, don't use that mobility park if you can walk from down the road, don't mock that disability be it visible or not and remember it can take but a minute to join us.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1720557 15-Feb-2017 11:58 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

"Nearly everyone in the country resides outside his electorate, so he doesn't represent us and we do not have the choice to vote against him"  That is the same for every electorate in the country probably all democracies. Do you want just one electorate nationally? 

 

 

I want one person chosen by one electorate to not be able to cast the deciding vote on major issues that affect the entire country because of a quirk in our political system that is being abused and manipulated. Dunne can be an ordinary MP for as long as his electorate wants to keep returning him (though I do think there should be a limit on the number of terms that can be served). That does not mean he should be able to keep deciding issues of national importance that have nothing to do specifically with his electorate.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

how different is that that a party with 5% of the vote could hold the balance of power and decide key issues.




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  Reply # 1720562 15-Feb-2017 12:04 Send private message quote this post

MikeB4: 

 

So you don't want democracy you only want representatives in all electorates that agree with your ideals. He is one of 120 votes in the house just like every other member.

 

 

If that is all he is, then why does he need to be the leader of a one-man party and a Minister as well? He is rorting the system and selling his support to National in exchange for the 'baubles of office', as another rorter phrased it so well. This is abuse and it is inexcusable. He is not just one of 120 votes like every other member. If he was, I wouldn't object to him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 




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  Reply # 1720565 15-Feb-2017 12:07 Send private message quote this post

vexxxboy:

 

how different is that that a party with 5% of the vote could hold the balance of power and decide key issues.

 

 

It is not all that different, I suppose, though 5% of the vote is a hell of a lot more than United Future ever gets. I am not a fan of MMP either, but that is a different discussion.

 

 





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  Reply # 1720567 15-Feb-2017 12:08 Send private message quote this post

Rikkitic:

 

MikeB4: 

 

So you don't want democracy you only want representatives in all electorates that agree with your ideals. He is one of 120 votes in the house just like every other member.

 

 

If that is all he is, then why does he need to be the leader of a one-man party and a Minister as well? He is rorting the system and selling his support to National in exchange for the 'baubles of office', as another rorter phrased it so well. This is abuse and it is inexcusable. He is not just one of 120 votes like every other member. If he was, I wouldn't object to him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He has a registered party and in our Democratic system he is allowed. He is a Minister because the Prime Minister and Cabinet believes he has the skills to do the job. How on earth is an abuse of the system? what Parliamentary rules or electoral rules are being abused or broken.

 

Tell me how he has more tham one vote in the House? I am intrigued to know as I am sure that is reserved for one person, the Speaker of the House 





Mike
Retired IT Manager, Freelance money spender
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 

 

Don't use that mobility toilet if you can use a tree, don't use that mobility park if you can walk from down the road, don't mock that disability be it visible or not and remember it can take but a minute to join us.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1720572 15-Feb-2017 12:21 Send private message quote this post

I'm more miffed the the greens have decided not to stand someone against Greg O'Conner, of all people, and that Labour took him on in the first place.

I may party vote United Future this year out of spite.



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  Reply # 1720574 15-Feb-2017 12:22 Send private message quote this post

MikeB4:

 

 

 

Tell me how he has more tham one vote in the House? I am intrigued to know as I am sure that is reserved for one person, the Speaker of the House 

 

 

Don't confuse quantity with mass. Not all votes are the same size.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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