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938 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1767567 19-Apr-2017 20:53 3 people support this post Send private message quote this post

I've been involved in the preparation of VISes, arguments against the admissibility of VISes, and assisting with rulings on whether contents of victim impact statements should be admissible (i.e. the prosecution, defence and judiciary side of the fence). As a general proposition, I support victims' right to present factual and reasonable statements of impact that a crime may have had on him/her. Remember, a VIS is ultimately just the victim's perspective -- no judge should give it undue weight in sentencing an offender. What I do not support is the direction from the likes of the Sensible Sentencing Trust and other groups of similar idiots would like VISes to become: a kind of unrestrained free-for-all where crime victims get to unleash on the perpetrator, his/her family, and anything else in between. There are also undoubtedly a small number of crime victims who, with the encouragement of unhelpful people, would basically like to blame every misfortune they have suffered post the crime on the criminal. t I once refused to read out a few rather bile-filled paragraphs from a VIS from a victim who wanted to make a drunk driver who crashed into him responsible for her dog drowning because she was in crutches and couldn't go into the water to rescue her dog as a result of being ploughed into by the drunk driver. Nevermind that the victim's dog had apparently been allowed to roam the street unsupervised.  

 

The criminal justice system is, regrettably, dominated mostly by the voices of the stupid and ideologically-driven (e.g. the police union and the Sensible Sentencing Trust). It really is not as broken as these idiots would like everyone to believe (whilst also believing that their "solutions" would be a cure all for everything); nor is it the case that, as some defence lawyers would like everyone to believe, that every criminal is just some misunderstood, marginalised victim.

 

As for some of the rather ignorant comments about restorative justice, do the makers of such comments have any actual experience of attending these meetings? Have you read any of the research on its impact on the victims and offenders?


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  Reply # 1767568 19-Apr-2017 20:55 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

Navel gazing woolly tosh.

Next question? 😇





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  Reply # 1767570 19-Apr-2017 20:59 Send private message quote this post

tdgeek:

TimA:


reven:


UHD:


gbwelly:


Don't waste your time, the people who commit these crimes don't care. Restorative justice is also a farce, just a great opportunity for their gang member uncle to come along as a 'support person' and size you up during the meeting.


 


 



So given that we know thrashing people with long sentences is both expensive and ineffective for crime prevention what is your solution?



capital punishment :)



I'd rather them be worked to death in a frigid alpine environment constructing roads or railways. Seems fitting with world war times.



A bit harsh, but you are meaning punishment and not a free lifestyle on us. Id like 6   10 hour days working in the community for free. Lots of jobs there to save councils money


and to give something back to the population who have rights and they got abused.



That would depend on the perp. Some of them could do that. Some of them should never be allowed anywhere near the rest of us ever again.





UHD

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1767583 19-Apr-2017 21:24 Send private message quote this post

Journeyman:

 

UHD:

 

So given that we know thrashing people with long sentences is both expensive and ineffective for crime prevention what is your solution?

 

 

WE CUT OFF THEIR JOHNSON!

 

 

 

 

Seriously though, prison sentences aren't about prevention. They're about punishment.

 

 

I hope the judge takes this post into account when you or someone you know is dragged into the judicial system. :)




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 1767584 19-Apr-2017 21:24 3 people support this post Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

 

I've been involved in the preparation of VISes, arguments against the admissibility of VISes, and assisting with rulings on whether contents of victim impact statements should be admissible (i.e. the prosecution, defence and judiciary side of the fence).

 

Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed response.


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  Reply # 1767585 19-Apr-2017 21:31 2 people support this post Send private message quote this post

Geektastic: Navel gazing woolly tosh.

Next question? 😇

 

This comment perfectly confirms everything dejadeadnz was saying.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  Reply # 1767593 19-Apr-2017 21:54 Send private message quote this post

UHD:

 

So given that we know thrashing people with long sentences is both expensive and ineffective for crime prevention what is your solution?

 

 

More expensive to have them out of jail. 

 

Specially if you are the one that gets robbed/beaten/murdered.

 

 


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  Reply # 1767595 19-Apr-2017 21:58 2 people support this post Send private message quote this post

surfisup1000:

 

More expensive to have them out of jail. 

 

Specially if you are the one that gets robbed/beaten/murdered.

 

 

 

Applying your brilliant logic of simply ignoring costs v benefits, one would have to rule out all kinds of other things in life. By the way, it's "especially" that you were looking for. Most robbery victims, I can assure you, do not suffer 100K of loss. That's average cost of incarcerating a criminal each year. There's a reason why, by and large, every semi-informed commentator on all sides of the political spectrum regard prisons as a social and economic failure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 1767599 19-Apr-2017 22:02 Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

 

 

 

As for some of the rather ignorant comments about restorative justice, do the makers of such comments have any actual experience of attending these meetings? Have you read any of the research on its impact on the victims and offenders?

 

 

Out of interest, do you have any idea of the number of offenders who reoffend after restorative justice?   

 

Personally, having been a victim of multiple crimes over the years I am all for punitive sentences.

 

Those who say a theft is a minor crime have no idea of the disruption this causes to victims.  In fact, theft is worst than assault in many cases. Wounds heal, money and cars do not rebuild themselves. 


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Reply # 1767624 19-Apr-2017 22:28 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

surfisup1000:

 

 

 

Out of interest, do you have any idea of the number of offenders who reoffend after restorative justice?   

 

Personally, having been a victim of multiple crimes over the years I am all for punitive sentences.

 

Those who say a theft is a minor crime have no idea of the disruption this causes to victims.  In fact, theft is worst than assault in many cases. Wounds heal, money and cars do not rebuild themselves. 

 

 

A five second Google search revealed some rather useful result that any Joe Public can access. Read it for yourself.

 

As for the claim that having things stolen is worse than having your money/car stolen, here's a clue: buy insurance. And go ask crime victims that are genuinely randomly selected whether they'd rather be assaulted or lose property -- most people would not agree with you. 


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  Reply # 1767683 20-Apr-2017 08:17 Send private message quote this post

If you care about the sentencing, then you should certainly do a victim impact statement.

 

The judge will take your statement into account when weighing how harshly/softly to punish the accused. Surely it helps to judge to have two sides to the story and a more complete picture in their mind.

 

If you really didn't care, then the judge may then see the crime as only having a trivial impact.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1767742 20-Apr-2017 09:50 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

dejadeadnz:

Applying your brilliant logic of simply ignoring costs v benefits, one would have to rule out all kinds of other things in life. By the way, it's "especially" that you were looking for. Most robbery victims, I can assure you, do not suffer 100K of loss. That's average cost of incarcerating a criminal each year.


 



I think your brilliant and somewhat simple logic needs some work. You are probably quite right that victims don't have 100k of gear stolen from their homes but there are a lot of other costs that make up the total value of that particular crime. For a start there is the police time to address the crime, the time off work for the victim to replace their locks, broken windows, stolen items etc, resulting in lost productivity for their employer as well. Then there is the increased costs of insurance premiums because of the crime and not just for the victim but for all insurance policy holders.

None of that takes in to account the adverse effect a crime has on the mental wellbeing of a victim. The person who is now scared to be home alone so requires counciling etc, or the kid who can't sleep because they are scared, so can't function at school. Or worse a kid who sees nothing being done about the crime so decides that's an acceptable way of life and starts steeling from others.

I'm not saying that locking everyone up is the right way to go about addressing crime, but your simplistic cost vs benefit argument is seriously flawed.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1767888 20-Apr-2017 13:24 Send private message quote this post

TimA:

 

I can only assume what a Johnson is but its probably a term used before my existence..

 

Obviously you're not a golfer.

 


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 1767891 20-Apr-2017 13:25 Send private message quote this post

Anyone who wants to know more about restorative justice and whether it works or not would do well to watch Restoring Hope: An Indigenous Response To Justice. There's a Maori perspective to it, but it goes behind the scenes and shows how it actually works.


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  Reply # 1767923 20-Apr-2017 14:49 Send private message quote this post

Victim impact statements do have their place, especially with assault type cases as photographs of injuries can be attached.

 

As far as the restorative justice process goes I believe there is a major flaw. Restorative justice is supposed to be a voluntary process which the offender undertakes to give him/her an opportunity to apologise for whatever has occurred. Unfortunately most people do not realise that if a restorative justice conference is held the offender gets a credit against his sentence, and I know from first hand experience that a lot of the mediators "forget' to advise the victims of this.

 

A true restorative justice process should occur AFTER the sentence has been handed down however this will never happen because everyone involved in the process knows that the percentage of offenders who would be willing to participate post sentence would be almost nil.


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