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Master Geek
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Topic # 106641 28-Jul-2012 12:06 Send private message

Hi,

Does anyone know if any ISPs publish privacy policies with regards to what they monitor?

I realise in this day and age that most (if not all ISPs) monitor most if not all traffic, but what do they do with that information, how long do they keep it, and do I have access to it?

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 663249 28-Jul-2012 12:15 Send private message

What makes you assume that your ISP even cares about logging your traffic?




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Master Geek
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  Reply # 663253 28-Jul-2012 12:32 Send private message

LOL, I said monitor, not log. But since you brought it up and by the looks of your profile / posts you would have a fair idea, could you answer the question. FUD is not good enough.

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  Reply # 663255 28-Jul-2012 12:37 Send private message

ISPs have got better things to do



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Master Geek
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  Reply # 663260 28-Jul-2012 12:43 Send private message

Thanks for your input John, no need for you to contribute to this conversation further then.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 663269 28-Jul-2012 13:24 Send private message

they monitor traffic for users sending spam or hack attacks, and monitor incoming email for spam and virus, stuff like that. Other things might be filtered/re-prioritised like torrents but not actually monitored unless there has been a complaint. If you want them to trawl through logs you will have to pay, and they otherwise have no interest in anything thats not a security breach or fault.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 663309 28-Jul-2012 15:01 Send private message

bradi: Hi,

I realise in this day and age that most (if not all ISPs) monitor most if not all traffic...


Citation please.

The equipment in an ISP looks at the IP destination address in a packet to determine where that packet should go.

If it doesn't do rate-limiting, then it also counts the number of bytes to and from a subscriber, otherwise probably not.

What else do you think an ISP "monitors"?

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  Reply # 663326 28-Jul-2012 16:05 Send private message

bradi: Thanks for your input John, no need for you to contribute to this conversation further then.


Except when required by law, there's hardly any reason for ISPs to monitor BB user traffic.

Steve and John were both right.

If you think ISPs in NZ still monitor BB traffic content, please cite your sources - your flippant assertion that most (if not all) ISPs monitor traffic doesn't convince me, and it shouldn't convince anyone that that's what happens.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 663327 28-Jul-2012 16:07 Send private message

bradi: [snip] I realise in this day and age that most (if not all ISPs) monitor most if not all traffic [snip]


And then...

bradi: [snip] FUD is not good enough.


I agree, FUD is not good enough. CITE YOUR SOURCES for your initial assertion please.

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 663336 28-Jul-2012 16:23 Send private message

in the submissions to the comcom some ISPs (from memory Telecom and Telstraclear, but possibly others) stated that they do not monitor any traffic and do not even have the capability to do so if they wanted to.

About the best they could do would to monitor traffic types (e.g. they might be able to differentiate torrents from video streaming)

Slingshot's new UFB plans for schools block P2P,so they must monitor for that somehow.

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  Reply # 663452 28-Jul-2012 22:34 Send private message

NonprayingMantis: in the submissions to the comcom some ISPs (from memory Telecom and Telstraclear, but possibly others) stated that they do not monitor any traffic and do not even have the capability to do so if they wanted to.

About the best they could do would to monitor traffic types (e.g. they might be able to differentiate torrents from video streaming)

Slingshot's new UFB plans for schools block P2P,so they must monitor for that somehow.


This.

To the OP: some ISPs do admit they can distinguish types of traffic (e.g. if you complain to your ISP that you've used way more bandwidth than you thought, they can tell you something like "well we can see quite a lot of BitTorrent traffic") but they go on to say they have no idea where the traffic is to.

It makes sense actually - logging the type of traffic basically means maybe 5 lines in a table per customer, whereas logging actual destinations would require an absolutely behemoth amount of storage - the sort of thing EMC would be salivating over.

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  Reply # 663457 28-Jul-2012 22:56 Send private message

bradi:

...I realise in this day and age that most (if not all ISPs) monitor most if not all traffic, but what do they do with that information, how long do they keep it, and do I have access to it?



bradi: LOL, I said monitor, not log...



Some ISPs monitor traffic flows in general (not necessarily per user) for unusual traffic patterns etc, and as needed will capture more specific information if someone requires 'special attention'.

More and more ISPs are deploying appliances though to help automate the process, ie,  Arbor Networks Peakflow system, or IronPorts for email scrubbing.

People who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear.

gzt

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  Reply # 663546 29-Jul-2012 11:33 Send private message

If I had a concern about ISP traffic monitoring I would use one or more of the many free or commercial solutions. I don't.

Even so, nothing to hide nothing to fear is a bad argument and often leads to fuzzy thinking about privacy, security, and civil liberties.

bradi: what do they do with that information, how long do they keep it, and do I have access to it?

The Privacy Act says yes, you have access to it. All you have to do is ask your ISP. The act allows a reasonable charge for providing this information. Go for it.

[Edit: Make sure you refer to the privacy act provisions specifically so your ISP knows exactly what you are requesting and there is no misunderstanding about that]

If your thinking includes P2P monitoring - as I understand it 3rd parties employed by copyright holders monitor public torrent traffic for content they believe to be infringing on their copyright and forward publicly available information (an IP address on the public tracker) to an ISP who matches that address to an account and sends a notice to the account holder. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the ISP at no point is required to track torrent use or cache content to achieve compliance.

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  Reply # 663887 30-Jul-2012 11:01 Send private message

People need to get in the mindset that the Internet is a public place, and anything you do in a public place could be monitored by other people.

For example, if you're out in the street talking to someone, you should have the expectation that someone could over hear that conversation.  If you phone somebody over a public network, same thing applies.  Text messages.  Anything that someone is carrying on your behalf could be monitored.  

But is it likely that someone is listening to your conversations?  Not unless someone is interested in you for some reason.

To the best of my knowledge, ISPs don't, and have no interest in, actively monitor their users.

Do mail carriers open all their mail to see what's inside?  Do phone carriers listen to all the phone calls?  I extremely doubt such a thing would be practical, and the same thing applies for your ISP.

Could they, if asked, monitor people who are under suspicion?  I should imagine so.

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  Reply # 663914 30-Jul-2012 11:46 Send private message

insane: People who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear.


This is a very dangerous falacy.




gzt

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  Reply # 664053 30-Jul-2012 15:40 Send private message

ubergeeknz: People need to get in the mindset that the Internet is a public place, and anything you do in a public place could be monitored by other people.

This is kind of true and kind of not. There are long established legal rights to privacy. Interception of private communication is illegal in many of the examples you give. It is not unreasonable to expect an ISP to comply with the law - not that there is any reason to think otherwise in this thread.

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